Stamboom Homs » Raoul "Rodolfus" de Gouy comte de Vexin, Amiens et Valois (± 873-± 926)

Persoonlijke gegevens Raoul "Rodolfus" de Gouy comte de Vexin, Amiens et Valois 

• Roepnaam is Rodolfus.
• Hij is geboren rond 873 in Vexin,Seine Inferieure,Normandy,France.
• Beroepen:
• .

  {geni:job_title} Comte, d'Ostrevant

• .

  {geni:job_title} Comte, de Valois, de Vexin, de Gouy, d'Ostrevant, de Cambrai, Sieur, d'Amiens

• .

  {geni:job_title} Comte, d'Ostrevant, d'Amiens, de Valois, de Vexin, Sieur, de Gouy, Comte, de Bourg

• in Count of Valois.
• Hij is overleden rond 926 in Valois,Oise,Picardy,France.
• Een kind van Hucbald d'Ostrevant en Helwise (Heilwig Hedwige) di Friuli
• Deze gegevens zijn voor het laatst bijgewerkt op 4 oktober 2011.

Gezin van Raoul "Rodolfus" de Gouy comte de Vexin, Amiens et Valois

Hij heeft/had een relatie met Hildegarde Of di Friuli.

Kind(eren):

1. Gautier / Walter (Walter) de Dreux  ± 919-966 

Notities over Raoul "Rodolfus" de Gouy comte de Vexin, Amiens et Valois

Name Prefix: Count

Name Suffix: Ii; Count Ostrav

Name Prefix: Count

[s2.FTW]

[Brøderbund WFT Vol. 2, Ed. 1, Tree #1241, Date of Import: May 8, 1997]

!COUNT OF OSTREVANT[Brøderbund WFT Vol. 2, Ed. 1, Tree #1241, Date of Import: May 8, 1997]

!COUNT OF OSTREVANT

(Research):His mother might have been Helwise of Friuli and Hucbold, Count of Osrevant.
See Ancestral Roots Line: 250- 16 & 17

I do not have verification on all information that you have downloaded. Please feel free to contact me @ (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) for errors/corrections/ or any additional information, especially if you are willing to share information

I do not have verification on all information that you have downloaded. Please feel free to contact me @ (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) for errors/corrections/ or any additional information, especially if you are willing to share information

I do not have verification on all information that you have downloaded. Please feel free to contact me @ (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) for errors/corrections/ or any additional information, especially if you are willing to share information

I do not have verification on all information that you have downloaded. Please feel free to contact me @ (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) for errors/corrections/ or any additional information, especially if you are willing to share information

[3115] WSHNGT.ASC file (Geo Washington Ahnentafel) # 34901312 = 1841408

AR doubts that the parents (Hucbold & Helwise) shown are really the parents. This part of line 250 is under review, although I haven't seen any alternative parents put forth by a relaible source. I also don't known whether the two wives I have for Raoul are alternative wives, or if he really had both.

Count Ralph (de Gouy?), probably of Valois but possibly of Amiens, and very possibly of Carolingian male ancestry further back; married Eldegarde and died 926 or 943. [Burke's Peerage]
AR doubts that the parents (Hucbold & Helwise) shown are really the parents. This part of line 250 is under review.

#Générale##Générale#Profession : Seigneur de Gouy en Arrouaise et d'Amiens,
Comte de Valois & d'Ostrevant.
Source : Héraldique.&.Généalogie n 91.202.

#Générale##Générale#Profession : Seigneur de Gouy.en.Arrouaise, Comte d'Amiens,Valois &Vexin, Comte de Bourges en 916.
Source : Pierre Riché, Héraldique.&.Généalogie n 91.202 &Dooghe 37. D'autressources donnent Thierry II de Valois etBertrane de Metz.

#Générale#de Valois, Raoul I de Bourges, 1ʻ mari
s:hg91.202 ; dooghe.37 et 41

note couple : #Générale#s:ds03.657 ; PiMa ; Auréjac

{geni:occupation} Comte, d'Ostrevant, d'Amiens, de Valois, de Vexin, Sieur, de Gouy, Comte, de Bourg, Count of Valois d'Amiens and Vexin - see http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps06/ps06_373.htm

{geni:about_me} Chapter 8. COMTES d'OSTREVANT
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN%20FRANCE.htm

The county of Ostrevant originally formed part of the pagus Atrebatensis. It was bound to the north by the river Scarpe, and to the east and south by the rivers Escaut and Sensée[842]. It lay east of Douai and west of Valenciennes, within the territory of the west Frankish kingdom. It is not known who governed the county after the death of Raoul [II] in 944 until the late 11th century when it was held by the seigneurs de Ribemont, who were also châtelains de Valenciennes (see HAINAUT).

son of Comte HUCBALD d'Ostrevant and his wife Heilwig of Friulia (daughter of Eberhard and Gisela):

'''RAOUL [I]''' (-926). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified.

Flodoard records that Hugues "le Grand" excluded "terra filiorum Balduini, Rodulfi quoque de Gaugeio atque Hilgaudi" from a treaty made with the Normans in 925[847], which may refer to this Raoul.

Vanderkindere suggests that "Gaugeium" was Gouy-sous-Bellone, in the area of Ostrevant, not Gouy-en-Arrouaise which is near Cambrai[848].

Flodoard records the death of "Rodulfus comes, filius Heilwidis" and "non multo post etiam Rotgarius, vitricus eius, comes Laudunensis pagi" in 926[849].

m ---. The identity of the wife of Raoul [I] is uncertain. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records that "comes Rodulfus" (referring to Raoul [II]) was "nepos…ex sorore" of Louis IV King of France[850]. It appears chronologically unlikely for any of King Louis's sisters, whose dates of birth can be estimated to [908/17], to have been the mother of Raoul [II] who was killed in battle in 944, presumably when he was already adult. It appears more likely that the family relationship was one generation further back, and that a member of the Unruochingi family, descended from the sister of Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks and who originated in the same area in northern France, would provide a good match. Nevertheless, the earlier primary source on which Alberic based his information has not yet been identified and it is possible that the source is inaccurate in its report. However, the poem ''Raoul de Cambrai'' states that "Raoul Taillefer" married "Aalais", sister of King Louis IV[851] which, if correct, would mean that his wife could be identified with Adelais, daughter of Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks & his first wife Frederuna ([908/16]-). This would mean that Raoul [II] was an infant when his father died (in fact the poem suggests that he was born posthumously). It would also mean that Raoul [I] and his wife were closely related, as the Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines also implies that Raoul's mother was the daughter of Adelais's paternal great aunt Gisela who married Eberhard, ancestor of the Marchesi of Friulia (see above). The poem Raoul de Cambrai cannot claim to be historically accurate. Nevertheless, it is not impossible that the detail of Raoul's marriage was not fabricated.

Comte Raoul [I] & his wife had [two] children:

i) '''RAOUL [II]''' (-killed in battle 944). Flodoard records that "Rodulfum filium Rodulfi de Gaugliaco" attempted to invade Vermandois in 943, during the course of which he was killed[852]. Comte de Valois, d'Amiens et du Vexin. He built the fortress of Crépy before 943. The Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines records that "Radulfum Cameracensem comitem" invaded Vermandois, adding that he was "nepos…ex sorore" of Louis IV King of France[853], although the earlier source on which this last piece of information is based has not yet been identified. The History of Waulsort monastery records that "Cameracensis comes Rodulfus…regalis consanguinitatis" invaded the territory of "quatuor Heriberti filios" with the consent of "rege Francorum…avunculo suo" but was expulsed[854], but this confuses Raoul [II] with Raoul, son of Baudouin I Count of Flanders. m as her first husband, LIEGARDIS Ctss de Meulan et de Mantes, daughter of --- (-12 Nov [990/91]). "Liutgarde veuve du comte Raoul" donated property to Saint-Cyr de Nevers by charter dated Oct 947[855]. She married (after Oct 947) secondly Galeran Comte de Meulan. The primary source which confirms her second marriage has not yet been identified.

ii) ['''GAUTHIER [I]''' (-987). Edouard de Saint-Phalle suggests that Gauthier [I] Comte d'Amiens, de Valois et du Vexin was the second son of Raoul [I][856].]
- COMTES de VALOIS.]

=----------------------------------=
From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps06/ps06_373.htm

Raoul was Count of Ostrevant and Amiens and of Valois and the Vexin. For a discussion of his parentage, see "Ancestral Roots..." (Balt., 7th ed., line 250).

possible wife: Hildegarde of Flanders daughter of Arnulf (The Elder) I

References: [RFC],[AR7]

=~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~=

From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps09/ps09_499.htm

Per Weis' "Ancestral Roots. . ." (250:17): "Count of Ostrevant and Amiens, and of Valois,and the Vexin, d.936 (his mother was a Heliwich, very doubtful if identical with No.16 [i.e. Helwise, d.895, dau. of EBERHARD, MARGRAVE OF FRIULI and wife of Hucbold, Count of Osrevant].); m. ELDEGARDE, (dau, or niece of Ermenfroi, Count of Amiens?, prob. a Carolingian princess), who m. (2) Waleran, a count who has been misidentified as father of No. 18 [i.e. WALTER I]"

A lengthy footnote following Weis' line # 250 explains in detail the combination of things which must be proven as true for Raoul to be the grandson of EBERHARD MARGRAVE OF FRIULI (RIN 1441). Todate, this proof seems highly unlikely.

The same footnote states that "David K. Kelly, from his studies (soon to be published) thinks it more likely that Raoul's father was COUNT THEODORIC, prob. of Valois, Vexin, pos. of Amiens, who was of the male line of CHILDEBRAND (RIN 1244), germanus of KARL MARTEL. COUNT THEODORIC, the Nibelung DID have a son, Count Radulph, prob. of Valois, who could well be this Raoul."

References: [AR7],[RFC]

Same as RIN 1-1766

Same as RIN 1-1766

Data From Lynn Jeffrey Bernhard, 2445 W 450 South #4, Springville UT 84663-4950
email - (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)

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