Genealogie Wylie » Roger I de Montgomery , Vicomte d'Hiemois (± 1000-> 1040)

Bronnen

1. Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com, Todd A. Farmerie, 3 Dec 1996
2. Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999, 2604
3. The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968, 13
4. The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968, 13
5. Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Lt, XI:682-3
6. Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com, Alan B. Wilson, 30 Jul 1997
7. Jim Weber presents The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest, Jim Weber, via http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.co..., september 2008

   1022 founded Troarn Abbey.
   
   Note: Turton has Roger as son of Hugh & Josceline, rather than Rogerbeing married to Josceline. After reading the evidence for CP's ancestryin note (c) below, I can see Turton's point. It seems that Turton'sinterpretation is just as valid as CP's. Turton goes by the "fact" thatJosceline married a Hugh de Montgomery and had a son Roger, while CP goesby the "fact" that Josecline was mother of Roger II. One of the "fact"sis wrong. But I think the dates favor Josceline being a grandmother ofRoger II, rather than a mother; so I am going with Turton.
   
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   ROGER I DE MONTGOMERY, seigneur of Montgomery and vicomte of theHiesmois, witnessed in 1031 or 1032 a charter of Robert I, Duke ofNormandy, for the abbey of St. Wandrille. Between 1028 and 1035 herestored to the abbey of Jumièges a market at Vimoutiers, nearMontgomery, of which he had deprived the monks. During the troubles ofDuke William's minority he was exiled and went to Paris on account of themurder of Osbern, son of Herfast, the steward, by his son William deMontgomery. At some date unknown he founded a collegiate church fortwelve secular canons at Troarn. He married Josceline, a niece of theduchess Gunnor (c). The date of his death is uncertain. [Complete PeerageXI:682-3, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]
   
   (c) Robert de Torigny in his continuation of William de Jumieges (bk.viii, chapter 35--ed. Marx, p. 321) makes the mother of Roger II deMontgomery to be Josceline, daughter of Wevie, a sister of Gunnor; inchapter 37 he states Wevie's husband Hugh de Montgomery, but the fatherof Roger II was undoubtedly named Roger. The mistake in thesegenealogical chapters, 35-37, as to which see G. H. White's article on"The Sisters and Nieces of Gunnor, Duchess of Normandy" in 'Genealogist',N.S., vol. xxxvii, pp. 57-65, 128-132, are too numerous to make itpossible to trust them in default of corroboration, but the statement asto Josceline is in part corroborated by Ives, bishop of Chartres. In aletter of the year 1114 to Henry I ('Rec. des Hist. de France', vol. xv,p. 167) he points out that a projected marriage between a naturaldaughter of the King and Hugh, son of Gervase de Chateauneuf, would beinvalid on the ground of consanguinity. He traces Hugh's pedigree asfollows: Senfrie, sister of Gunnor, had a daughter, Josceline, the motherof Roger de Montgomery, who had a daughter Mabel married to Gervase deChateauneuf, by whom the daughter of Senfrie or Sainfrie, who accordingto Robert de Torigny (loc. cit.) was Gunnor's sister; the name ofJosceline's husband is not given. The bishop seems to be writing withdue sense of responsibility, for the letter contains this remarkablepassage: " Quod enim dicimus, non ex conjecturis facimus, quia praemanibus habemus scriptam genealogiam, quam scribi fecerunt nobiles viride eadem tribu progeniti, et parati sunt ante judices ecclesiasticoseandem genealogiam in tuto loco computare et secundum legum institutaprobare." Moreover the protest was successful, since Hugh did not marrythe King's daughter but a daughter of Waleran, Count of Meulan. Ifhowever another of these genealogies of Robert de Torigny be accepted,Hugh nevertheless married within the prohibited degrees, since his bridedescended from another of Gunnor's sisters (see 'ante', vol. vii, p. 521,note "c"). Taken as a whole the evidence seems to show that Rober I'swife was Josceline, a niece of Gunnor.

8. Jim Weber , via http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.co..., september 2008

   1022 founded Troarn Abbey.
   
   Note: Turton has Roger as son of Hugh & Josceline, rather than Rogerbeing married to Josceline. After reading the evidence for CP's ancestryin note (c) below, I can see Turton's point. It seems that Turton'sinterpretation is just as valid as CP's. Turton goes by the "fact" thatJosceline married a Hugh de Montgomery and had a son Roger, while CP goesby the "fact" that Josecline was mother of Roger II. One of the "fact"sis wrong. But I think the dates favor Josceline being a grandmother ofRoger II, rather than a mother; so I am going with Turton.
   
   ---------------
   
   ROGER I DE MONTGOMERY, seigneur of Montgomery and vicomte of theHiesmois, witnessed in 1031 or 1032 a charter of Robert I, Duke ofNormandy, for the abbey of St. Wandrille. Between 1028 and 1035 herestored to the abbey of Jumièges a market at Vimoutiers, nearMontgomery, of which he had deprived the monks. During the troubles ofDuke William's minority he was exiled and went to Paris on account of themurder of Osbern, son of Herfast, the steward, by his son William deMontgomery. At some date unknown he founded a collegiate church fortwelve secular canons at Troarn. He married Josceline, a niece of theduchess Gunnor (c). The date of his death is uncertain. [Complete PeerageXI:682-3, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]
   
   (c) Robert de Torigny in his continuation of William de Jumieges (bk.viii, chapter 35--ed. Marx, p. 321) makes the mother of Roger II deMontgomery to be Josceline, daughter of Wevie, a sister of Gunnor; inchapter 37 he states Wevie's husband Hugh de Montgomery, but the fatherof Roger II was undoubtedly named Roger. The mistake in thesegenealogical chapters, 35-37, as to which see G. H. White's article on"The Sisters and Nieces of Gunnor, Duchess of Normandy" in 'Genealogist',N.S., vol. xxxvii, pp. 57-65, 128-132, are too numerous to make itpossible to trust them in default of corroboration, but the statement asto Josceline is in part corroborated by Ives, bishop of Chartres. In aletter of the year 1114 to Henry I ('Rec. des Hist. de France', vol. xv,p. 167) he points out that a projected marriage between a naturaldaughter of the King and Hugh, son of Gervase de Chateauneuf, would beinvalid on the ground of consanguinity. He traces Hugh's pedigree asfollows: Senfrie, sister of Gunnor, had a daughter, Josceline, the motherof Roger de Montgomery, who had a daughter Mabel married to Gervase deChateauneuf, by whom the daughter of Senfrie or Sainfrie, who accordingto Robert de Torigny (loc. cit.) was Gunnor's sister; the name ofJosceline's husband is not given. The bishop seems to be writing withdue sense of responsibility, for the letter contains this remarkablepassage: " Quod enim dicimus, non ex conjecturis facimus, quia praemanibus habemus scriptam genealogiam, quam scribi fecerunt nobiles viride eadem tribu progeniti, et parati sunt ante judices ecclesiasticoseandem genealogiam in tuto loco computare et secundum legum institutaprobare." Moreover the protest was successful, since Hugh did not marrythe King's daughter but a daughter of Waleran, Count of Meulan. Ifhowever another of these genealogies of Robert de Torigny be accepted,Hugh nevertheless married within the prohibited degrees, since his bridedescended from another of Gunnor's sisters (see 'ante', vol. vii, p. 521,note "c"). Taken as a whole the evidence seems to show that Rober I'swife was Josceline, a niece of Gunnor.

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