Sabin family tree » Hrolf (The Ganger) Ragnvaldsson or Rollo Ragnvaldsson (846-931)

Personal data Hrolf (The Ganger) Ragnvaldsson or Rollo Ragnvaldsson 

• He was born on October 4, 846 in of Maer, Nord-Trondelag, Norway.
• Title: or Rollo Ragnvaldsson
• He died on December 16, 931 in Notre Dame, Rouen, France, he was 85 years old.
• A child of Rognvald I Eysteinsson and Ragnhild Hrolfsdatter
• This information was last updated on December 11, 2016.

Household of Hrolf (The Ganger) Ragnvaldsson or Rollo Ragnvaldsson

(1) He is married to Poppa de Bayeaux.

They got married in the year 891, he was 44 years old.

Child(ren):

1. William I Longsword  893-942 
2. Robert (Count Of Corbeil)  903-????
3. Crespina Ragnvaldsson  905-????
4. Gerlatta Ragnvaldsson  907-????
5. Kathlin Ragnvaldsson  909-????
6. Adele  911-????
7. Walter Rolfsson  ± 922-???? 

(2) He is married to Giselle.

They got married in the year 912 at France, he was 65 years old.

Child(ren):

1. Walter Rolfsson  ± 922-????
2. Anslec De Bestenberg de Bertrand  < 927-????
3. Ansfred I "the Dane" Rollosson  ± 927-????

Notes about Hrolf (The Ganger) Ragnvaldsson or Rollo Ragnvaldsson

Note:
TITLE: King of NORMANDYNOTE: ACEEDED 911,ROLF BECAME KNOWN AS ROBERT OR ROLLO IN NORMANDY.AKA ROLF WEND-A-FOOT,HROLF THE WALKER,COULDNT FIND A HORSE LARGE ENOUGH TO CARRY HIM.BE CAME KING IN NORMANDY,MEANS=LAND OF THE NORTH MEN.Rollo, also called ROLF, or ROU, French ROLLON (b. c. 860--d. c. 932), Scandinavian rover who founded the duchy of Normandy.911-Under treaty of St Claire received Normandy from Charles III King of FranceMaking himself independent of King Harald I of Norway, Rollo sailed off to raid Scotland, England, Flanders, and France on pirating expeditions and, about 911, established himself in an area along the Seine River. Charles III the Simple of France held off his siege of Paris, battled him near Chartres, and negotiated the treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, giving him the part of Neustria that came to be called Normandy; Rollo in return agreed to end his brigandage. He gave his son, William I Longsword, governance of the dukedom (927) before his death. Rollo was baptized in 912 but is said to have died a pagan. [Encyclopaedia Britannica CD, 1997, ROLLO]Banished from Norway to the Hebrides ca. 876.------------------------------The following information, arguing against Rollo's ancestry as I have it (certainly putting it to question), is contained in a post-em by Curt Hofemann, (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Note: I am still sticking with my ancestry, which is based on information in CP, considered a very reliable source, though no source is perfect. I tend to want to stick up for the Norse "legends" contained in the sagas, believing that because they are easy targets, living in a time when there was no writing, many people deny their existence, holding them to the same standard as say "Charlemagne" or other historic figures who were written about by contemporaries.):I apologize in advance for the length of this.Rollo "the Ganger" 1st Duke of NORMANDY911: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Paget p135]properly Hrolf; known from his stature as Gongu-Hrolf, 'Rolf the walker' because no horse could carry him [Ref: Watney p740]name: Rolf the Ganger [Ref: Tapsell p202]911-932: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Tapsell p202]born: 846 [Ref: Moriarty p10] abt 846 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p11, Watney #740], parents: [Ref: Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11, Paget p135, Watney #740]married Poppa 886: danish wife [Ref: Moriarty p10] first and third wives of Rollo, repudiated but afterward remarried after 919 [Ref: Paget p135], names: [Ref: Henry Project citing (Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998), Book ii Chapter 16 p38-9; Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204), Moriarty p11, p226, 39 Tompsett, Wurts p422]married Gisele of France 912: [Ref: ES II:79, Paget p135]died: 933 [Ref: ES II:75new] 927 [Ref: Watney 740] 931 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11] 932 [Ref: Paget p135, Tapsell p202] 931 [Ref: Wurts p422]Rolf, known to his Frankish posterity as Rollo, was probably born of Norwegian stock, being the son of Rognvald, Earl of More, and before his formal establishment in Gaul he had a long career as a Viking, raiding not only in France but also, as it seems, in Scotland and Ireland. In 911, having entered Gaul afresh, perhaps by way of the Loire valley, he was defeated in a pitched battle outside the walls of of Chartres, and it was after this that he and his followers were given lands by the emperor in the valley of the lower Seine. Whether this famous grant of lands and recognition was made (as tradition later asserted) after a formal interview between Charles [King Charles III the Simple of France] and Rolf at Saint-Claire-sur Epte is questionable, and the application of the term 'treaty' to these arrangements is undoubtedly too precise. What, however, is certain is that before 918 Rolf and his followers already held considerable lands in this region, and that t

MISC: Acquired Neustria which became NORMANDY. Founder of Normandy 911

BIRTH: ABT 846/854

OCCUPATION: Banished from Norway to the Hebrides abt 876, 890 participated in Viking attack on Bayeux, where Count Berenger of Bayeux was killed, and dau. Poppa captured and taken, 886, by Rollo (now called Count of Rouen) as his "Danish" wife. Under Treaty of St. Claire, 911, received the Duchy of Normandy from CHARLES III, "the Simple"; d. abt. 927 or 931, buried Notre Dame, Rouen. Besides a dau. Gerloc (Adela) who m. 935 WILLIAM I, Count of Poitou, Ganger Rolf had WILLIAM I, "Longsword", b. abt 891, prob. Rouen, abt. 927 succ. to Duchy of Normandy, abt 930 the Bretons rebelled, he subdued them, taking Brittany, the Channel Islands, the Contentin, and the Averanchin; killed in treacherous ambush 17 Dec. 942 by servants of Theobald of Blois and Arnulf of Flanders. Norse chieftain and Viking leader; m. 1st POPA de BAYEAUX; invaded northwestern France (abt 890-910); received Rouen and adjacent territory by treaty with CHARLES the Simple of France --- beginning of Normandy; ancestor of Norman royalty.

Also called ROLF, or ROU, French ROLLON, Scandianvian rover who founded the duchy of Normandy.

Making himself independent of King Harald I of Norway, Rollo sailed off to raid Scotland, England, Flanders and France on pirating expeditions and, about 911, established himself in an area along the Seine River. Charles III the Simple of France held off his siege of Paris, battled him near Chartes, and negotiated the treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, giving him the part of Neustria that came to be called Normandy; Rollo in return agreed to end his brigandage. He gave his son, William I Longsword, goverance of the dukedon (927) before his death. Rollo was baptized in 192 but is said to have died a pagan. Source: www.eb.comALIAS: Rollo Rognvaldsson, 1st Duke of Normandy

Alternate name found in file: Rolf "the Ganger" 1st Duke of Normandy

Rollo, also called ROLF, or ROU, French ROLLON (b. c. 860--d. c. 932), Scandinavian rover who founded the duchy of Normandy.

911-Under treaty of St Claire received Normandy from Charles III King of France

Making himself independent of King Harald I of Norway, Rollo sailed off to raid Scotland, England, Flanders, and France on pirating expeditions and, about 911, established himself in an area along the Seine River. Charles III the Simple of France held off his siege of Paris, battled him near Chartres, and negotiated the treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, giving him the part of Neustria that came to be called Normandy; Rollo in return agreed to end his brigandage. He gave his son, William I Longsword, governance of the dukedom (927) before his death. Rollo was baptized in 912 but is said to have died a pagan. [Encyclopaedia Britannica CD, 1997, ROLLO]

Banished from Norway to the Hebrides ca. 876.
------------------------------

The following information, arguing against Rollo's ancestry as I have it (certainly putting it to question), is contained in a post-em by Curt Hofemann, (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Note: I am still sticking with my ancestry, which is based on information in CP, considered a very reliable source, though no source is perfect. I tend to want to stick up for the Norse "legends" contained in the sagas, believing that because they are easy targets, living in a time when there was no writing, many people deny their existence, holding them to the same standard as say "Charlemagne" or other historic figures who were written about by contemporaries.):

I apologize in advance for the length of this.

Rollo "the Ganger" 1st Duke of NORMANDY
911: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Paget p135]
properly Hrolf; known from his stature as Gongu-Hrolf, 'Rolf the walker' because no horse could carry him [Ref: Watney p740]
name: Rolf the Ganger [Ref: Tapsell p202]
911-932: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Tapsell p202]

born: 846 [Ref: Moriarty p10] abt 846 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p11, Watney #740], parents: [Ref: Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11, Paget p135, Watney #740]

married Poppa 886: danish wife [Ref: Moriarty p10] first and third wives of Rollo, repudiated but afterward remarried after 919 [Ref: Paget p135], names: [Ref: Henry Project citing (Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998), Book ii Chapter 16 p38-9; Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204), Moriarty p11, p226, 39 Tompsett, Wurts p422]

married Gisele of France 912: [Ref: ES II:79, Paget p135]

died: 933 [Ref: ES II:75new] 927 [Ref: Watney 740] 931 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11] 932 [Ref: Paget p135, Tapsell p202] 931 [Ref: Wurts p422]

Rolf, known to his Frankish posterity as Rollo, was probably born of Norwegian stock, being the son of Rognvald, Earl of More, and before his formal establishment in Gaul he had a long career as a Viking, raiding not only in France but also, as it seems, in Scotland and Ireland. In 911, having entered Gaul afresh, perhaps by way of the Loire valley, he was defeated in a pitched battle outside the walls of of Chartres, and it was after this that he and his followers were given lands by the emperor in the valley of the lower Seine. Whether this famous grant of lands and recognition was made (as tradition later asserted) after a formal interview between Charles [King Charles III the Simple of France] and Rolf at Saint-Claire-sur Epte is questionable, and the application of the term 'treaty' to these arrangements is undoubtedly too precise. What, however, is certain is that before 918 Rolf and his followers already held considerable lands in this region, and that they had been formally confirmed in possession of them by the emperor. Equally certain is that in token of the new position he was henceforth to occupy in Gaul, Rolf accepted baptism at the hands of the archbishop of Rouen. [Ref: Wm Conqueror p17]

Rollo (later Robert) "of Normandy" Viking leader in France, d. 928933. Although he is often referred to as the first duke of Normandy, that title is an anachronism. Probably about 911 [see Douglas 426-31], king Charles the Simple of France ceded a district around the city of Rouen to Rollo, which eventually evolved into the duchy of Normandy. He is said to have been baptized in 912, assuming the Christian name Robert [Dudo ii, 30 (p. 50)]. He was still living in 928, when he was holding Eudes, son of Heribert of Vermandois, as a captive [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 928, see PL 135: 439, van Houts 45], and was probably dead by 933, when his son William was mentioned as leading the Normans [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 933, see PL 135: 445, van Houts 45]. [Ref: Henry Project] note: the citations Douglas, Dudo, Flodoard, PL & van Houts are further identified in the Bibliography at the bottom of this page...Curt

Since the article by Duglas (sic) [Duglas (sic), David, English Historical review 1942, p417-36] seems to be one of the main secondary sources used by many who support the alleged Norwegian origin of Rollo, a brief discussion of Douglas's article is in order.

I agree with Duglas (sic) that the reference to Rollo as "filio Catilli" by Richer of Rheims can be dismissed. Richer used the generally reliable chronicle of Floodoard as a framework, which he then expanded with much legendary material of dubious value. This Catillus is a significant figure in Richer, but is apparently unknown from other sources, and his legendary nature is evident. The statement that Rollo was the son of Catillus is apparently an attempt by Richer to amplify the fame of Catillus (whose existence is doubful) by giving him a famous son.

Duglas (sic) then outlines the well known saga statements regarding Rollo's supposed identification with Ganger-Rolf, son of Rognvald. To support his claim that "Rollo" is an acceptable Latin form for "Hrolfr", Duglas (sic) brings forward a single charter [a charter of Richard II for St. Quen, which predated Dudo and the other later sources, mentions the _atavus Ralphus_ of the Duke] which reads "atavus Rolphus" (not Ralphus) which appears to be referring to Rollo (p.421). However, as Duglas (sic) admits, the charter itself is not above suspicion. Another example mentioned in a footnote is a certain Turstinus fillius Rolv who was apparently the same person as a Turstinus filius Rollonis. This is a very small sample to make the claim that Rollo was a Latin form for Rolf. Just as likely is the possibility that the names Rollo and Ralph were confused in a couple of manuscripts. Since Ralph was such a common name in Normandy and England, we should see a large number of examples of "Rollo" and "Ralph" being used as the same name, if they were in fact the same. Since the number of examples which Douglas was able to produce is so small, it is more likely that some sort of copying mistake was made on the above examples, in which the uncommon name Rollo was accidently replaced by the extremely common (and similar) Ralph. Important negative evidence is not given, for Douglas never mentions that there is a Norse name "Hrollaug" for which "Rollo" is an obvious Latinized form. Since the sagas give Rognvald of More two clearly different sons named Hrollaug and Hrolf, it would be difficult to argue that Hrollaug and Hrolf are supposed to be the same name. The main other piece of evidence Douglas gives for accepting the saga account is the supposed confirmation of a saga statement about Granger-Rolf in the contemporary records. The following statement by Ari is quoted: "Another son of Othere (he says) was Helge. He harried in Scotland and won there as his booty Nithbeorg, daughter of King Beolan and of Kathleen, daughter of Ganger-Rolf." Duglas (sic) then reads between the lines, and states that since Kathleen is a Celtin name, her mother would almost certainly be a Christian. He then turns to the nearly contemporary "Lament for the Death of William Longsword", which states that William was born outside France of a Christian mother at a time when his father was still pagan. He then states: "The suggestion of the Landnamabok is thus confirmed by an epic poem composed in Gaul in the tenth century. The fact would seem to be a powerful, if not a conclusive, argument in favor of the identity of Rollo with Ganger-Rolf." The first sentence in the above quote is completely false. There is not a single detail in the quote from Ari which is confirmed by the statement in "Lament for the death ..." This argument used by Duglas (sic), in which he deduces an additional statement not in the original, so that there is something which can be "confirmed" is unacceptable. The fact that Douglas would refer to such an argument as "powerful" only serves to emphasize how weak his argument really is. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin 7 Dec 1996] (Note: "Duglas" referred to above is actually spelled Douglas. David C. Douglas, Fellow of the British Academy, Emeritus Professor of History, University of Bristol, Ford's Lecturer to the University of Oxford & editor of a series of studies of the English monarchs...Curt)

According to the Orkneying Saga (late twelfth century), Rognvald, jarl of More in Norway, was the father (among others) of a certain Hrolf, who became the first duke of Normandy, and is therefore intended to be identified with the historical Viking Rollo, who appears in the contemporary Frankish annals of the tenth century. Those who accept this view base their argument on these late Icelandic sources. In my opinion, the Icelandic sources are worthless for early Norman history, and should be rejected as a source for Rollo's parentage. Some of the basic reasons for this opinion are as follows:

1. The Icelandic sources are both late and foreign when it comes to Norman history. Other than the very well known fact that William the Conqueror was descended from the dukes of Normandy, the Icelandic sources do not offer a single fact about early Norman history which can be corroborated in the contemporary continental sources. In fact, the Icelandic sources say remarkably little about early Norman history, which is suspicious for a source which supposedly knows the origin of Rollo.

2. The Norman sources, which are both native and considerably earlier than the Icelandic sources, tell a completely different story about the origin of Rollo, who is said to be of Danish origin. Even though some of the early Norman sources (such as Dudo) have been criticized for their innacuracy (and for deliberate embellishment), it is still reasonable to suppose that early native sources would be more reliable on the matter of Rollo's origin than late foreign sources.

3. Unfortunately, the early tenth century is not well covered by the Frankish sources. However, even though the Norman sources have clearly embellished and romanticized the material on Rollo, the story of a Danish origin for Rollo fits quite well with what the Frankish sources for the late ninth century (a better covered period) say about the Danish invasions during that earlier period.

4. Contrary to what has been frequently claimed, the names Hrolf and Rollo do not appear to be the same. The Norse name Hrollaug, which is a different name (see #5), is the name which would have "Rollo" as a reasonable Latinization. The claim that "Hrolf" was Latinized as "Rollo" by mistake is unlikely, because the Franks were quite familiar with the name, and a different Viking raider named Hrolf from the ninth century has his name correctly Latinized as "Rodulf" in the contemporary ninth century sources.

5. Fifth, and most important, the Icelandic sources give Rognvald of More several sons two of whom are Hrolf, allegedly the same as the founder of Normandy, and Hrollaug, an early Icelandic settler. First, this shows that Hrolf and Hrollaug were regarded as different names. However, it also causes a big problem in the Icelandic story. If we are to believe the Icelandic account, Hrolf went to Normandy, where he was then known as Rollo/Hrollaug, i.e., the name of Hrolf's brother. If the Icelandic story were true, why would both the Frankish and Norman sources both refer to "Hrolf" by the name of his brother Hrollaug? (Claiming that the Icelandic sources were almost right, and that Rollo of Normandy was the same as Hrollaug son of Rognvald, is not feasible, because Hrollaug's role as an early settler of Iceland clearly marks him as a different person from Rollo of Normandy.) I would like to see this problem explained away by someone supporting position that Rollo was Rognvald's son. By the way, this last point (#5) has, to my knowledge, not been mentioned before (except by me in previous postings on the same subject), and I therefore have an obvious personal interest in knowing if this particular point has been mentioned by others. If point #5 has already been made somewhere else in the literature, I would be interested in having the reference.

Thus, in my opinion, for the reasons given above, Rollo of Normandy was was probably not the son of Rognvald of More, and his parentage should be regarded as unknown. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin 16 Mar 1998]

also known as Hrolf or Rollon, 1st Duke of Normandy from 911 to 927, called also Rolf the Walker, because, being so tall, he preferred to go afoot rather than ride the little Norwegian horses. Also shown as Rollon, Row, or Robert Originally a Norse Viking, he was noted for strength and martial prowess.

It is more likely that the title "Duke" is a tenth or eleventh century construct, as even the title count was not introduced until later documents, usually refered as count of Rouen. Neither Rollo or his son William Longsword issued many written instruments - certainly none that survive in the original.

Rollo the Dane, also known as Hrolf or Rollon, 1st Duke of Normandy from 911 to 927, called also Rolf the Walker, because, being so tall, he preferred to go afoot rather than ride the little Norwegian horses. Also shown as Rollon, Row, or Robert. Originally a Norse Viking, he was noted for strength and martial prowess. In the reign of Charles II, the Bald, he sailed up the Seine River and took Rouen, which he kept as a base of operations. He gained a number of victories over the Franks, and extorted the cession of the province since called Normandy. By the famous treaty which Charles the Bald and Rollo signed the latter agreed to adopt Christianity. He was born in 846 and died in 932, and was buried in the Cathedral at Rouen. He married (1) Gisla, daughter of Charles the Simple, King of France, no issue; (2) Lady Poppa de Valois, (means puppet or little doll), daughter of Pepin de Senlis de Valois, Count Berenger (Berenarius) of Bretagne, Count of Bayeux, and sister of Bernard of St. Liz (Senlis), also recorded as Berenger, Count of Bayeux. Rollo lived with her for some time before the marriage. [Ref: McBride2]

Dudo (contemporary with Rollo's grandson Richard I and informed by Richard's half-brother) states that Rollo was a Dane and had a brother whose name (I forget the form Dudo used) can be interpreted as Gorm or Guthorm. He portrays him as an extremely active individual rampaging, sacking, looting, and then being bought off by the French king to stop other vikings from doing the same, being baptized as Robert.

The Orkneyinga saga, which dates from a good bit after the time of William the Conqueror (great-grandson of Richard I and great-great-great-grandson of Rollo) says that the Jarl of Orkney had a brother Hrolf the Walker, who conquered Normandy and was ancestor of the Norman kings of England. It explains the nickname as indicating that he was so fat he could not ride a horse. He is a Norwegian, and had numerous brothers (including, oddly enough, one named Rollo), but none named Gorm or Guthorm.

Now there are no absolute answers here, but one thing is clear. The accounts of Dudo and of the Orkneyinga saga are completely incompatable. Every single detail, other than that the man conquered Normandy, - name, ethnicity, physical characteristics, siblings, are all different. Obviously one of these sources is in error. Both contain material which is demonstrably false, and which has been used in the past to discredit them. However, Dudo probably actually knew people who knew Rollo, and it is difficult to come up with a motive for falsification of these details (why bother substituting danish for norwegian, for example) while the Orkneyinga saga author had no such direct connection, and furthermore had motive to invent such an ancient connection, to further glorify the family are the center of his tale. Still, nothing of this sort is certain, but given what each of the sources have to say, you have to give the nod to Dudo, which would mean that Rollo would not be identical to the Hrolf of the saga, and the claim that he was the founder of Normandy must rest on some sort of mistaken identity or intentional forgery. [Ref: TAF 27 Feb 2002]

Hrlfr (son of Rognvaldr) is, often (but dubiously) identified with Rollo of Normandy [Ref: Henry Project]
Below is from the Henry Project, compiled by Stewart Baldwin at http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rollo000.htm
Commentary
Supposed father: Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre.
Supposed mother: Ragnhildr or Hildr.

The origin of Rollo is contraversial. There are several medieval sources which claim to give information about the origin of Rollo, the most widely repeated of which would make him a son of Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre by Ragnhildr or Hildr. As can be seen from the following brief notices, the various primary sources offer very contradictory information about Rollo's origin.

The earliest author to attribute an explicit origin to Rollo was Richer of Rheims, writing between 996 and 998, who called Rollo the son of another Viking invader of France named Catillus (presumably representing the Norse name Ketil) [Richer i, 28 (see PL 138: 35)]. Since Catillus appears to be a legendary individual, this account has generally been discredited, probably correctly [see Douglas 420-1].

According to Dudo of St. Quentin (writing early 11th century), author of the earliest history of the Normans, Rollo had a younger brother named Gurim, presumed to be the familiar name Gorm. Dudo states that Rollo and Gurim were sons of a man who held many lands in "Dacia" (Dudo's word for Denmark, following other authors), and that after the death of the (unnamed) father of Rollo and Gurim, the king of Dacia fought against the sons, killing Gurim and driving Rollo out [Dudo ii, 2-4 (pp. 26-7)]. Dudo later refers to duke Richard I as being related to a "king of Dacia" named Haigrold [Dudo iv, 84-88 (pp. 114-20 passim)], who must have been the Viking raider of France of that name [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 945, see PL 135: 463-4, van Houts 51], and not king Harald "Bluetooth" of Denmark. Note that Gurim cannot be the famous Gorm "the Old" of Denmark, who survived Rollo by many years.
William of Malmesbury (early 12th century) appears to be the earliest author to attribute a Norwegian origin to Rollo [WM ii, 5 (p. 125)].

As is well known, the Orkneyinga Saga (late twelfth century) [OrkS 4 (pp. 29-30)], followed by other Icelandic sources (such as the well known Heimskringla and Landnabk), gives Rollo the name Hrlfr, and make him a son of Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre, and brother of (among others) jarl Torf-Einarr of the Orkneys [OI 1: 187]. Earlier sources, such as Ari's slendingabk (early to middle 12th century), mention Rognvald of Mre and his son Hrollaugr who settled in Iceland, but not the supposed connection to the dukes of Normandy [Ari 49, 61]. A poem allegedly written by Einar mentions his brothers, including a Hrlfr, but does not connect Hrlfr to Normandy, and does not name a Gorm among the brothers. (See ...Rognvaldr for more on this poem.)

Historia Gruffud vab Kenan (ca. 1250), apparently a Welsh translation and/or revision of an earlier Latin life of Gruffudd ap Cynan, gives Haraldr Hfagri of Norway ("Harald Harfagyr") a brother named Rodulf (i.e., the Latin form of Hrlfr) who is called the founder of Normandy [HGK, 3-4]. However, this is evidently a corrupt version of the Scandinavian version, and the suggestion that Rollo was a brother of Haraldr Hfagri need not be given any credence.

The most prominent argument of the case for accepting the Scandinavian account that Rollo was the same person as Hrlfr, son of Rognvaldr of Mre, was given by D. C. Douglas [Douglas 419-23], and those who accept this identification have generally followed the same arguments. On the other side, arguments against the identification were given by Viggo Starcke in his book Denmark in World History [Starcke 222-7].

Most of the argument of Douglas consists of accepting the tale of the sagas and rejecting evidence from the Norman sources which contradict the saga version, while explaining away the problems (on which more below). The evidence which Douglas puts forward as "a powerful, if not a conclusive, argument in favor of the identity of Rollo with Ganger-Rolf" concerns a passage in Landnàmabk that refers to a daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr:
"... Annarr son ttars vas Helge; hann herjaÇ Skottland, ok feck ar at herfange NiÇiorgo, dttor Beolans konungs ok CaÇnar, dttor Gongo-Hrlfs" (Another son of ttarr was Helge. He harried in Scotland, and won there as his booty NiÇjorg, daughter of king Beolan and CaÇn, daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr.) [OI 1: 66-7]
This passage, which Douglas attributed to "Ari the Learned" (who may or may not have been the author), is then compared with a passage from the nearly contemporary Plaintsong of Rollo's son William "Longsword" which was written soon after William's death:

"Hic in orbe transmarino natus patre
in errore paganorum permanente
matre quoque consignata alma fide
sacra fuit lotus unda"

(Born overseas from a father who stuck to the pagan error and from a mother who was devoted to the sweet religion, he was blessed with the holy chrism.)
[Douglas 422 (Latin); van Houts 41 (English translation)]

After explaining that the two stories are consistent with one another, Douglas then state that "[t]he suggestion of the Landnabk is thus confirmed by an epic poem composed in Gaul in the tenth century." While it is true that the two accounts as they stand are consistent with each other and with the claim that Rollo and Gongu-Hrlfr were the same man (ignoring all other evidence), it is surely a gross overstatement to claim that the Plaintsong "confirms" the other account, for there is not a single statement in the passage from Landnabk that is confirmed by the Plaintsong. This is a clear case of circular reasoning, for without first assuming that Rollo and Gongu-Hrlfr were the same man, there is no evidence that the two passages have any relation whatsoever. Douglas's case is further undermined by the fact that another source [Laxd?la Saga chapter 32, see OI 1: 246] makes NiÇjorg's mother CaÇn a daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr, son of Oxna-Þrir, directly contradicting the thesis that CaÇn was supposedly a granddaughter of Rognvaldr of Mre. Yet, Douglas apparently regarded this as the strongest part of his argument.

There are three main strands of evidence (somewhat related to each other) against the identification of Rollo with Hrlfr son of Rognvaldr:

1. The discrepancies between the Norman and Icelandic sources.
Among other contradictions, the Norman sources give Rollo a brother named Gurim, while the Icelandic sources give Hrlfr several brothers, none of them named Gormr (the presumed Old-Norse form for Gurim). Although both of the sources have their problems, earlier native sources would seem to have a higher priority than later foreign sources. While many elements of the Dudo's account are clearly legendary, there appears to be no clear motive on the part of Dudo (writing less than a century after Rollo's death) to invent a younger brother for Rollo who is then immediately killed off.

2. The general unreliability of Norse source for the early tenth century.
For the period under consideration, i.e., the early ninth century, the sagas have a poor record for reliability, even for Scandinavian history. For example, consider the following words of Peter Sawyer (written with regard to a different matter, but true in general), a well known expert on early Viking history: "... These sagas cannot, however, be accepted as reliable sources for the tenth century. The only trustworthy evidence for the tenth century in those sagas are the contemporary verses around which the saga writers wove their tales." [Sawyer 42] None of these verses confirm the identity of Rollo and Hrlfr. The suspicion is made even larger by the fact that the Icelandic sources show no knowledge of Norman history other than the fact (well known throughout Europe at the time) that William the Conqueror was a descendant of the dukes of Normandy.

3. Rollo and Hrlfr appear to be different names.
The natural Latinization of the name Hrlfr would be Radulfus or Rodulfus. Yet, the Frankish and Norman sources consistently refer to the founder of Normandy as Rollo. Since these sources also include numerous individuals named Rodulfus, and consistently separate the two names, it appears that the names were regarded as different. Douglas explained this by suggesting a hypothetical hypochoristic form "Hrolle" of the name "HroÇulf" as the basis for the name Rollo, and provides a single charter in which Rollo is referred to as "Rolphus" as evidence that the names were the same, acknowledging, however, that the charter itself was "not above suspicion." If the names were really regarded as the same, it would be expected that more convincing evidence to this effect could be offered.

Personally, I am inclined to believe that the identification of Hrlfr and Rollo has no basis in fact, that it was likely to have been invented by a saga writer who wanted to give the jarls of Orkney some famous relatives (i.e., the kings of England), and that whatever the confusing Norman sources say are probably about the closest we are going to get to Rollo's origin. However, based on the surviving evidence, it is not possible to come to any definitive conclusion one way or the other, and Rollo's parentage should be listed as "unknown" unless further evidence becomes available.

Supposed additional child:
CaÇin (Kathleen), said by Norse sources to have married a certain king Beolan, who is otherwise unidentified. As discussed above, the evidence for her is less than satisfactory.]

Bibliography
Ari = Halldr Hermannsson, ed. & trans., The Book of Icelanders (slendingabk) by Ari Thorgilsson (Islandica, vol. 20, Ithaca, 1930).
Dudo = Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998). Citation is by book and chapter of Dudo's work, with the page number in parentheses.
Douglas = D. C. Douglas, "Rollo of Normandy", English Historical Review 57 (1942), 417-36.
Flodoard's Annals = See PL 135 (Latin), and van Houts (2000), 42-51 (English translation of excerpts relating to the Normans).
GJ = Guillaume de Jumies, Gesta Normannorum Ducum, as edited in Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Gesta Normannorum Ducum of William of Jumies, Orderic Vitalis and Robert of Torigni, 2 vols., (Oxford, 1992). Citation is by book and chapter of Guillaume's work, with the volume and page number of the edition by van Houts in parentheses.
HGK = D. Simon Evans, ed., Historia Gruffudd vab Kenan (Caerdydd, 1977).
Keats-Rohan = Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204.
OI = Gudbrand Vigfusson and F. York Powell, ed. & trans., Origines Islandicae, 2 vols. (Oxford, 1905).
OrkS = Herman Psson & Paul Edwards, ed. & trans., Orkneyinga Saga (London, 1978). Citation is by chapter, with the page number in parentheses.
PL = Migne's PatrologiS?(Latin)
Richer = Richer of Rheims (see PL 138 for the text, in Latin). Citation is by book and chapter of Richer's work, with the page number in parentheses.
Sawyer = Peter Sawyer, 'The Last Scandinavian Kings of York', Northern History 31 (1995), 39-44.
Starcke = Viggo Starcke, Denmark in World History (Philadelphia, 1962, a translation of the Danish edition of 1946 by Frank Noel Stagg, Ingeborg Nixon, and Mrs. Elmer Harp).
van Houts = Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Normans in Europe (Manchester & New York, 2000) [gives English translations of many of the primary sources relevant to early Norman history]
WM = J. A. Giles, ed. & trans., William of Malmesbury's Chronicle of the Kings of England (London, 1889). Citation is by book and chapter of William's work, with the page number in parentheses.

Regards,
Curt

*********[De La Pole.FTW]

Sources: A. Roots 121E, 243A; Kraentzler 1160, 1443, 1453; RC 162, 166; Coe; Guizot; The Normans and Their Myth (chart) by R.H.C. Davis; Pfafman; WED Stokes; A History of the Vikings by Gwyn Jones; Ashley; Norr, p59.
He established the Northmen in France and was the first Duke of Normandy. Count of Rouen. Conquered Normandy. Also known as Hrolf (Gongu-Hrolfr), Rollon, Ganger and Granger Rolf.
WED says the area near "Mora, Norway, was the domain of the jarl of More, whose son Hrolf, with his followers...in 911 settled in the district later known as Normandy."
Roots: Ganger Rolf, "the Viking (or Rollo), banished from Norway to the Hebrides ca. 876; 890 participated in Viking attack on Bayeux, where Count Berenger of Bayeux was killed, and his daughter Poppa taken, 886, by Rollo (now called Count of Rouen) as his "Danish" wife. Under Treaty of St. Clair, 911, received the Duchy of Normandy from Charles III, "the Simple."
Davis: Rollo, ruler of Normandy from 911-931. The dukes of Normandy free married with non-Scandinavians. "Rollo is said to have married the daughter of the Frankish king and to have had his son by the daughter of a Frankish count. That son, William, married the daughter of a Frankish count and had his son, Richard, by a Breton. None of the dukes' wives came from Scandinavia or England, and by the first half of the 11th century their family connections were typically French." An early historian, Dudo, said Rollo was Danish.
Ashley: Count Rolllo or Rolf the Viking., died 993?
Norr: Rollo or Rolf, 1st duke of Normandy 912-917-(927), born about 856. He was of the same Danish origin as the ancestors of the English which his descendants conquered in 1066.

BIOGRAPHY: Norwegian Viking settled at mouth of Seine. After fighting many battles, made an agreement with King Charles 'The Simple' - received land in Normandie and 911 became 1st Duc de Normandie and vassel of King.

MISC: Acquired Neustria which became NORMANDY. Founder of Normandy 911

BIRTH: ABT 846/854

OCCUPATION: Banished from Norway to the Hebrides abt 876, 890 participated in Viking attack on Bayeux, where Count Berenger of Bayeux was killed, and dau. Poppa captured and taken, 886, by Rollo (now called Count of Rouen) as his "Danish" wife. Under Treaty of St. Claire, 911, received the Duchy of Normandy from CHARLES III, "the Simple"; d. abt. 927 or 931, buried Notre Dame, Rouen. Besides a dau. Gerloc (Adela) who m. 935 WILLIAM I, Count of Poitou, Ganger Rolf had WILLIAM I, "Longsword", b. abt 891, prob. Rouen, abt. 927 succ. to Duchy of Normandy, abt 930 the Bretons rebelled, he subdued them, taking Brittany, the Channel Islands, the Contentin, and the Averanchin; killed in treacherous ambush 17 Dec. 942 by servants of Theobald of Blois and Arnulf of Flanders. Norse chieftain and Viking leader; m. 1st POPA de BAYEAUX; invaded northwestern France (abt 890-910); received Rouen and adjacent territory by treaty with CHARLES the Simple of France --- beginning of Normandy; ancestor of Norman royalty.

Also called ROLF, or ROU, French ROLLON, Scandianvian rover who founded the duchy of Normandy.

Making himself independent of King Harald I of Norway, Rollo sailed off to raid Scotland, England, Flanders and France on pirating expeditions and, about 911, established himself in an area along the Seine River. Charles III the Simple of France held off his siege of Paris, battled him near Chartes, and negotiated the treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, giving him the part of Neustria that came to be called Normandy; Rollo in return agreed to end his brigandage. He gave his son, William I Longsword, goverance of the dukedon (927) before his death. Rollo was baptized in 192 but is said to have died a pagan. Source: www.eb.comALIAS: Rollo Rognvaldsson, 1st Duke of Normandy

Alternate name found in file: Rolf "the Ganger" 1st Duke of Normandy

Rollo, also called ROLF, or ROU, French ROLLON (b. c. 860--d. c. 932), Scandinavian rover who founded the duchy of Normandy.

911-Under treaty of St Claire received Normandy from Charles III King of France

Making himself independent of King Harald I of Norway, Rollo sailed off to raid Scotland, England, Flanders, and France on pirating expeditions and, about 911, established himself in an area along the Seine River. Charles III the Simple of France held off his siege of Paris, battled him near Chartres, and negotiated the treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, giving him the part of Neustria that came to be called Normandy; Rollo in return agreed to end his brigandage. He gave his son, William I Longsword, governance of the dukedom (927) before his death. Rollo was baptized in 912 but is said to have died a pagan. [Encyclopaedia Britannica CD, 1997, ROLLO]

Banished from Norway to the Hebrides ca. 876.
------------------------------

The following information, arguing against Rollo's ancestry as I have it (certainly putting it to question), is contained in a post-em by Curt Hofemann, (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Note: I am still sticking with my ancestry, which is based on information in CP, considered a very reliable source, though no source is perfect. I tend to want to stick up for the Norse "legends" contained in the sagas, believing that because they are easy targets, living in a time when there was no writing, many people deny their existence, holding them to the same standard as say "Charlemagne" or other historic figures who were written about by contemporaries.):

I apologize in advance for the length of this.

Rollo "the Ganger" 1st Duke of NORMANDY
911: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Paget p135]
properly Hrolf; known from his stature as Gongu-Hrolf, 'Rolf the walker' because no horse could carry him [Ref: Watney p740]
name: Rolf the Ganger [Ref: Tapsell p202]
911-932: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Tapsell p202]

born: 846 [Ref: Moriarty p10] abt 846 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p11, Watney #740], parents: [Ref: Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11, Paget p135, Watney #740]

married Poppa 886: danish wife [Ref: Moriarty p10] first and third wives of Rollo, repudiated but afterward remarried after 919 [Ref: Paget p135], names: [Ref: Henry Project citing (Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998), Book ii Chapter 16 p38-9; Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204), Moriarty p11, p226, 39 Tompsett, Wurts p422]

married Gisele of France 912: [Ref: ES II:79, Paget p135]

died: 933 [Ref: ES II:75new] 927 [Ref: Watney 740] 931 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11] 932 [Ref: Paget p135, Tapsell p202] 931 [Ref: Wurts p422]

Rolf, known to his Frankish posterity as Rollo, was probably born of Norwegian stock, being the son of Rognvald, Earl of More, and before his formal establishment in Gaul he had a long career as a Viking, raiding not only in France but also, as it seems, in Scotland and Ireland. In 911, having entered Gaul afresh, perhaps by way of the Loire valley, he was defeated in a pitched battle outside the walls of of Chartres, and it was after this that he and his followers were given lands by the emperor in the valley of the lower Seine. Whether this famous grant of lands and recognition was made (as tradition later asserted) after a formal interview between Charles [King Charles III the Simple of France] and Rolf at Saint-Claire-sur Epte is questionable, and the application of the term 'treaty' to these arrangements is undoubtedly too precise. What, however, is certain is that before 918 Rolf and his followers already held considerable lands in this region, and that they had been formally confirmed in possession of them by the emperor. Equally certain is that in token of the new position he was henceforth to occupy in Gaul, Rolf accepted baptism at the hands of the archbishop of Rouen. [Ref: Wm Conqueror p17]

Rollo (later Robert) "of Normandy" Viking leader in France, d. 928933. Although he is often referred to as the first duke of Normandy, that title is an anachronism. Probably about 911 [see Douglas 426-31], king Charles the Simple of France ceded a district around the city of Rouen to Rollo, which eventually evolved into the duchy of Normandy. He is said to have been baptized in 912, assuming the Christian name Robert [Dudo ii, 30 (p. 50)]. He was still living in 928, when he was holding Eudes, son of Heribert of Vermandois, as a captive [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 928, see PL 135: 439, van Houts 45], and was probably dead by 933, when his son William was mentioned as leading the Normans [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 933, see PL 135: 445, van Houts 45]. [Ref: Henry Project] note: the citations Douglas, Dudo, Flodoard, PL & van Houts are further identified in the Bibliography at the bottom of this page...Curt

Since the article by Duglas (sic) [Duglas (sic), David, English Historical review 1942, p417-36] seems to be one of the main secondary sources used by many who support the alleged Norwegian origin of Rollo, a brief discussion of Douglas's article is in order.

I agree with Duglas (sic) that the reference to Rollo as "filio Catilli" by Richer of Rheims can be dismissed. Richer used the generally reliable chronicle of Floodoard as a framework, which he then expanded with much legendary material of dubious value. This Catillus is a significant figure in Richer, but is apparently unknown from other sources, and his legendary nature is evident. The statement that Rollo was the son of Catillus is apparently an attempt by Richer to amplify the fame of Catillus (whose existence is doubful) by giving him a famous son.

Duglas (sic) then outlines the well known saga statements regarding Rollo's supposed identification with Ganger-Rolf, son of Rognvald. To support his claim that "Rollo" is an acceptable Latin form for "Hrolfr", Duglas (sic) brings forward a single charter [a charter of Richard II for St. Quen, which predated Dudo and the other later sources, mentions the _atavus Ralphus_ of the Duke] which reads "atavus Rolphus" (not Ralphus) which appears to be referring to Rollo (p.421). However, as Duglas (sic) admits, the charter itself is not above suspicion. Another example mentioned in a footnote is a certain Turstinus fillius Rolv who was apparently the same person as a Turstinus filius Rollonis. This is a very small sample to make the claim that Rollo was a Latin form for Rolf. Just as likely is the possibility that the names Rollo and Ralph were confused in a couple of manuscripts. Since Ralph was such a common name in Normandy and England, we should see a large number of examples of "Rollo" and "Ralph" being used as the same name, if they were in fact the same. Since the number of examples which Douglas was able to produce is so small, it is more likely that some sort of copying mistake was made on the above examples, in which the uncommon name Rollo was accidently replaced by the extremely common (and similar) Ralph. Important negative evidence is not given, for Douglas never mentions that there is a Norse name "Hrollaug" for which "Rollo" is an obvious Latinized form. Since the sagas give Rognvald of More two clearly different sons named Hrollaug and Hrolf, it would be difficult to argue that Hrollaug and Hrolf are supposed to be the same name. The main other piece of evidence Douglas gives for accepting the saga account is the supposed confirmation of a saga statement about Granger-Rolf in the contemporary records. The following statement by Ari is quoted: "Another son of Othere (he says) was Helge. He harried in Scotland and won there as his booty Nithbeorg, daughter of King Beolan and of Kathleen, daughter of Ganger-Rolf." Duglas (sic) then reads between the lines, and states that since Kathleen is a Celtin name, her mother would almost certainly be a Christian. He then turns to the nearly contemporary "Lament for the Death of William Longsword", which states that William was born outside France of a Christian mother at a time when his father was still pagan. He then states: "The suggestion of the Landnamabok is thus confirmed by an epic poem composed in Gaul in the tenth century. The fact would seem to be a powerful, if not a conclusive, argument in favor of the identity of Rollo with Ganger-Rolf." The first sentence in the above quote is completely false. There is not a single detail in the quote from Ari which is confirmed by the statement in "Lament for the death ..." This argument used by Duglas (sic), in which he deduces an additional statement not in the original, so that there is something which can be "confirmed" is unacceptable. The fact that Douglas would refer to such an argument as "powerful" only serves to emphasize how weak his argument really is. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin 7 Dec 1996] (Note: "Duglas" referred to above is actually spelled Douglas. David C. Douglas, Fellow of the British Academy, Emeritus Professor of History, University of Bristol, Ford's Lecturer to the University of Oxford & editor of a series of studies of the English monarchs...Curt)

According to the Orkneying Saga (late twelfth century), Rognvald, jarl of More in Norway, was the father (among others) of a certain Hrolf, who became the first duke of Normandy, and is therefore intended to be identified with the historical Viking Rollo, who appears in the contemporary Frankish annals of the tenth century. Those who accept this view base their argument on these late Icelandic sources. In my opinion, the Icelandic sources are worthless for early Norman history, and should be rejected as a source for Rollo's parentage. Some of the basic reasons for this opinion are as follows:

1. The Icelandic sources are both late and foreign when it comes to Norman history. Other than the very well known fact that William the Conqueror was descended from the dukes of Normandy, the Icelandic sources do not offer a single fact about early Norman history which can be corroborated in the contemporary continental sources. In fact, the Icelandic sources say remarkably little about early Norman history, which is suspicious for a source which supposedly knows the origin of Rollo.

2. The Norman sources, which are both native and considerably earlier than the Icelandic sources, tell a completely different story about the origin of Rollo, who is said to be of Danish origin. Even though some of the early Norman sources (such as Dudo) have been criticized for their innacuracy (and for deliberate embellishment), it is still reasonable to suppose that early native sources would be more reliable on the matter of Rollo's origin than late foreign sources.

3. Unfortunately, the early tenth century is not well covered by the Frankish sources. However, even though the Norman sources have clearly embellished and romanticized the material on Rollo, the story of a Danish origin for Rollo fits quite well with what the Frankish sources for the late ninth century (a better covered period) say about the Danish invasions during that earlier period.

4. Contrary to what has been frequently claimed, the names Hrolf and Rollo do not appear to be the same. The Norse name Hrollaug, which is a different name (see #5), is the name which would have "Rollo" as a reasonable Latinization. The claim that "Hrolf" was Latinized as "Rollo" by mistake is unlikely, because the Franks were quite familiar with the name, and a different Viking raider named Hrolf from the ninth century has his name correctly Latinized as "Rodulf" in the contemporary ninth century sources.

5. Fifth, and most important, the Icelandic sources give Rognvald of More several sons two of whom are Hrolf, allegedly the same as the founder of Normandy, and Hrollaug, an early Icelandic settler. First, this shows that Hrolf and Hrollaug were regarded as different names. However, it also causes a big problem in the Icelandic story. If we are to believe the Icelandic account, Hrolf went to Normandy, where he was then known as Rollo/Hrollaug, i.e., the name of Hrolf's brother. If the Icelandic story were true, why would both the Frankish and Norman sources both refer to "Hrolf" by the name of his brother Hrollaug? (Claiming that the Icelandic sources were almost right, and that Rollo of Normandy was the same as Hrollaug son of Rognvald, is not feasible, because Hrollaug's role as an early settler of Iceland clearly marks him as a different person from Rollo of Normandy.) I would like to see this problem explained away by someone supporting position that Rollo was Rognvald's son. By the way, this last point (#5) has, to my knowledge, not been mentioned before (except by me in previous postings on the same subject), and I therefore have an obvious personal interest in knowing if this particular point has been mentioned by others. If point #5 has already been made somewhere else in the literature, I would be interested in having the reference.

Thus, in my opinion, for the reasons given above, Rollo of Normandy was was probably not the son of Rognvald of More, and his parentage should be regarded as unknown. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin 16 Mar 1998]

also known as Hrolf or Rollon, 1st Duke of Normandy from 911 to 927, called also Rolf the Walker, because, being so tall, he preferred to go afoot rather than ride the little Norwegian horses. Also shown as Rollon, Row, or Robert Originally a Norse Viking, he was noted for strength and martial prowess.

It is more likely that the title "Duke" is a tenth or eleventh century construct, as even the title count was not introduced until later documents, usually refered as count of Rouen. Neither Rollo or his son William Longsword issued many written instruments - certainly none that survive in the original.

Rollo the Dane, also known as Hrolf or Rollon, 1st Duke of Normandy from 911 to 927, called also Rolf the Walker, because, being so tall, he preferred to go afoot rather than ride the little Norwegian horses. Also shown as Rollon, Row, or Robert. Originally a Norse Viking, he was noted for strength and martial prowess. In the reign of Charles II, the Bald, he sailed up the Seine River and took Rouen, which he kept as a base of operations. He gained a number of victories over the Franks, and extorted the cession of the province since called Normandy. By the famous treaty which Charles the Bald and Rollo signed the latter agreed to adopt Christianity. He was born in 846 and died in 932, and was buried in the Cathedral at Rouen. He married (1) Gisla, daughter of Charles the Simple, King of France, no issue; (2) Lady Poppa de Valois, (means puppet or little doll), daughter of Pepin de Senlis de Valois, Count Berenger (Berenarius) of Bretagne, Count of Bayeux, and sister of Bernard of St. Liz (Senlis), also recorded as Berenger, Count of Bayeux. Rollo lived with her for some time before the marriage. [Ref: McBride2]

Dudo (contemporary with Rollo's grandson Richard I and informed by Richard's half-brother) states that Rollo was a Dane and had a brother whose name (I forget the form Dudo used) can be interpreted as Gorm or Guthorm. He portrays him as an extremely active individual rampaging, sacking, looting, and then being bought off by the French king to stop other vikings from doing the same, being baptized as Robert.

The Orkneyinga saga, which dates from a good bit after the time of William the Conqueror (great-grandson of Richard I and great-great-great-grandson of Rollo) says that the Jarl of Orkney had a brother Hrolf the Walker, who conquered Normandy and was ancestor of the Norman kings of England. It explains the nickname as indicating that he was so fat he could not ride a horse. He is a Norwegian, and had numerous brothers (including, oddly enough, one named Rollo), but none named Gorm or Guthorm.

Now there are no absolute answers here, but one thing is clear. The accounts of Dudo and of the Orkneyinga saga are completely incompatable. Every single detail, other than that the man conquered Normandy, - name, ethnicity, physical characteristics, siblings, are all different. Obviously one of these sources is in error. Both contain material which is demonstrably false, and which has been used in the past to discredit them. However, Dudo probably actually knew people who knew Rollo, and it is difficult to come up with a motive for falsification of these details (why bother substituting danish for norwegian, for example) while the Orkneyinga saga author had no such direct connection, and furthermore had motive to invent such an ancient connection, to further glorify the family are the center of his tale. Still, nothing of this sort is certain, but given what each of the sources have to say, you have to give the nod to Dudo, which would mean that Rollo would not be identical to the Hrolf of the saga, and the claim that he was the founder of Normandy must rest on some sort of mistaken identity or intentional forgery. [Ref: TAF 27 Feb 2002]

Hrlfr (son of Rognvaldr) is, often (but dubiously) identified with Rollo of Normandy [Ref: Henry Project]
Below is from the Henry Project, compiled by Stewart Baldwin at http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rollo000.htm
Commentary
Supposed father: Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre.
Supposed mother: Ragnhildr or Hildr.

The origin of Rollo is contraversial. There are several medieval sources which claim to give information about the origin of Rollo, the most widely repeated of which would make him a son of Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre by Ragnhildr or Hildr. As can be seen from the following brief notices, the various primary sources offer very contradictory information about Rollo's origin.

The earliest author to attribute an explicit origin to Rollo was Richer of Rheims, writing between 996 and 998, who called Rollo the son of another Viking invader of France named Catillus (presumably representing the Norse name Ketil) [Richer i, 28 (see PL 138: 35)]. Since Catillus appears to be a legendary individual, this account has generally been discredited, probably correctly [see Douglas 420-1].

According to Dudo of St. Quentin (writing early 11th century), author of the earliest history of the Normans, Rollo had a younger brother named Gurim, presumed to be the familiar name Gorm. Dudo states that Rollo and Gurim were sons of a man who held many lands in "Dacia" (Dudo's word for Denmark, following other authors), and that after the death of the (unnamed) father of Rollo and Gurim, the king of Dacia fought against the sons, killing Gurim and driving Rollo out [Dudo ii, 2-4 (pp. 26-7)]. Dudo later refers to duke Richard I as being related to a "king of Dacia" named Haigrold [Dudo iv, 84-88 (pp. 114-20 passim)], who must have been the Viking raider of France of that name [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 945, see PL 135: 463-4, van Houts 51], and not king Harald "Bluetooth" of Denmark. Note that Gurim cannot be the famous Gorm "the Old" of Denmark, who survived Rollo by many years.
William of Malmesbury (early 12th century) appears to be the earliest author to attribute a Norwegian origin to Rollo [WM ii, 5 (p. 125)].

As is well known, the Orkneyinga Saga (late twelfth century) [OrkS 4 (pp. 29-30)], followed by other Icelandic sources (such as the well known Heimskringla and Landnabk), gives Rollo the name Hrlfr, and make him a son of Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre, and brother of (among others) jarl Torf-Einarr of the Orkneys [OI 1: 187]. Earlier sources, such as Ari's slendingabk (early to middle 12th century), mention Rognvald of Mre and his son Hrollaugr who settled in Iceland, but not the supposed connection to the dukes of Normandy [Ari 49, 61]. A poem allegedly written by Einar mentions his brothers, including a Hrlfr, but does not connect Hrlfr to Normandy, and does not name a Gorm among the brothers. (See ...Rognvaldr for more on this poem.)

Historia Gruffud vab Kenan (ca. 1250), apparently a Welsh translation and/or revision of an earlier Latin life of Gruffudd ap Cynan, gives Haraldr Hfagri of Norway ("Harald Harfagyr") a brother named Rodulf (i.e., the Latin form of Hrlfr) who is called the founder of Normandy [HGK, 3-4]. However, this is evidently a corrupt version of the Scandinavian version, and the suggestion that Rollo was a brother of Haraldr Hfagri need not be given any credence.

The most prominent argument of the case for accepting the Scandinavian account that Rollo was the same person as Hrlfr, son of Rognvaldr of Mre, was given by D. C. Douglas [Douglas 419-23], and those who accept this identification have generally followed the same arguments. On the other side, arguments against the identification were given by Viggo Starcke in his book Denmark in World History [Starcke 222-7].

Most of the argument of Douglas consists of accepting the tale of the sagas and rejecting evidence from the Norman sources which contradict the saga version, while explaining away the problems (on which more below). The evidence which Douglas puts forward as "a powerful, if not a conclusive, argument in favor of the identity of Rollo with Ganger-Rolf" concerns a passage in Landnàmabk that refers to a daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr:
"... Annarr son ttars vas Helge; hann herjaÇ Skottland, ok feck ar at herfange NiÇiorgo, dttor Beolans konungs ok CaÇnar, dttor Gongo-Hrlfs" (Another son of ttarr was Helge. He harried in Scotland, and won there as his booty NiÇjorg, daughter of king Beolan and CaÇn, daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr.) [OI 1: 66-7]
This passage, which Douglas attributed to "Ari the Learned" (who may or may not have been the author), is then compared with a passage from the nearly contemporary Plaintsong of Rollo's son William "Longsword" which was written soon after William's death:

"Hic in orbe transmarino natus patre
in errore paganorum permanente
matre quoque consignata alma fide
sacra fuit lotus unda"

(Born overseas from a father who stuck to the pagan error and from a mother who was devoted to the sweet religion, he was blessed with the holy chrism.)
[Douglas 422 (Latin); van Houts 41 (English translation)]

After explaining that the two stories are consistent with one another, Douglas then state that "[t]he suggestion of the Landnabk is thus confirmed by an epic poem composed in Gaul in the tenth century." While it is true that the two accounts as they stand are consistent with each other and with the claim that Rollo and Gongu-Hrlfr were the same man (ignoring all other evidence), it is surely a gross overstatement to claim that the Plaintsong "confirms" the other account, for there is not a single statement in the passage from Landnabk that is confirmed by the Plaintsong. This is a clear case of circular reasoning, for without first assuming that Rollo and Gongu-Hrlfr were the same man, there is no evidence that the two passages have any relation whatsoever. Douglas's case is further undermined by the fact that another source [Laxd?la Saga chapter 32, see OI 1: 246] makes NiÇjorg's mother CaÇn a daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr, son of Oxna-Þrir, directly contradicting the thesis that CaÇn was supposedly a granddaughter of Rognvaldr of Mre. Yet, Douglas apparently regarded this as the strongest part of his argument.

There are three main strands of evidence (somewhat related to each other) against the identification of Rollo with Hrlfr son of Rognvaldr:

1. The discrepancies between the Norman and Icelandic sources.
Among other contradictions, the Norman sources give Rollo a brother named Gurim, while the Icelandic sources give Hrlfr several brothers, none of them named Gormr (the presumed Old-Norse form for Gurim). Although both of the sources have their problems, earlier native sources would seem to have a higher priority than later foreign sources. While many elements of the Dudo's account are clearly legendary, there appears to be no clear motive on the part of Dudo (writing less than a century after Rollo's death) to invent a younger brother for Rollo who is then immediately killed off.

2. The general unreliability of Norse source for the early tenth century.
For the period under consideration, i.e., the early ninth century, the sagas have a poor record for reliability, even for Scandinavian history. For example, consider the following words of Peter Sawyer (written with regard to a different matter, but true in general), a well known expert on early Viking history: "... These sagas cannot, however, be accepted as reliable sources for the tenth century. The only trustworthy evidence for the tenth century in those sagas are the contemporary verses around which the saga writers wove their tales." [Sawyer 42] None of these verses confirm the identity of Rollo and Hrlfr. The suspicion is made even larger by the fact that the Icelandic sources show no knowledge of Norman history other than the fact (well known throughout Europe at the time) that William the Conqueror was a descendant of the dukes of Normandy.

3. Rollo and Hrlfr appear to be different names.
The natural Latinization of the name Hrlfr would be Radulfus or Rodulfus. Yet, the Frankish and Norman sources consistently refer to the founder of Normandy as Rollo. Since these sources also include numerous individuals named Rodulfus, and consistently separate the two names, it appears that the names were regarded as different. Douglas explained this by suggesting a hypothetical hypochoristic form "Hrolle" of the name "HroÇulf" as the basis for the name Rollo, and provides a single charter in which Rollo is referred to as "Rolphus" as evidence that the names were the same, acknowledging, however, that the charter itself was "not above suspicion." If the names were really regarded as the same, it would be expected that more convincing evidence to this effect could be offered.

Personally, I am inclined to believe that the identification of Hrlfr and Rollo has no basis in fact, that it was likely to have been invented by a saga writer who wanted to give the jarls of Orkney some famous relatives (i.e., the kings of England), and that whatever the confusing Norman sources say are probably about the closest we are going to get to Rollo's origin. However, based on the surviving evidence, it is not possible to come to any definitive conclusion one way or the other, and Rollo's parentage should be listed as "unknown" unless further evidence becomes available.

Supposed additional child:
CaÇin (Kathleen), said by Norse sources to have married a certain king Beolan, who is otherwise unidentified. As discussed above, the evidence for her is less than satisfactory.]

Bibliography
Ari = Halldr Hermannsson, ed. & trans., The Book of Icelanders (slendingabk) by Ari Thorgilsson (Islandica, vol. 20, Ithaca, 1930).
Dudo = Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998). Citation is by book and chapter of Dudo's work, with the page number in parentheses.
Douglas = D. C. Douglas, "Rollo of Normandy", English Historical Review 57 (1942), 417-36.
Flodoard's Annals = See PL 135 (Latin), and van Houts (2000), 42-51 (English translation of excerpts relating to the Normans).
GJ = Guillaume de Jumies, Gesta Normannorum Ducum, as edited in Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Gesta Normannorum Ducum of William of Jumies, Orderic Vitalis and Robert of Torigni, 2 vols., (Oxford, 1992). Citation is by book and chapter of Guillaume's work, with the volume and page number of the edition by van Houts in parentheses.
HGK = D. Simon Evans, ed., Historia Gruffudd vab Kenan (Caerdydd, 1977).
Keats-Rohan = Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204.
OI = Gudbrand Vigfusson and F. York Powell, ed. & trans., Origines Islandicae, 2 vols. (Oxford, 1905).
OrkS = Herman Psson & Paul Edwards, ed. & trans., Orkneyinga Saga (London, 1978). Citation is by chapter, with the page number in parentheses.
PL = Migne's PatrologiS?(Latin)
Richer = Richer of Rheims (see PL 138 for the text, in Latin). Citation is by book and chapter of Richer's work, with the page number in parentheses.
Sawyer = Peter Sawyer, 'The Last Scandinavian Kings of York', Northern History 31 (1995), 39-44.
Starcke = Viggo Starcke, Denmark in World History (Philadelphia, 1962, a translation of the Danish edition of 1946 by Frank Noel Stagg, Ingeborg Nixon, and Mrs. Elmer Harp).
van Houts = Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Normans in Europe (Manchester & New York, 2000) [gives English translations of many of the primary sources relevant to early Norman history]
WM = J. A. Giles, ed. & trans., William of Malmesbury's Chronicle of the Kings of England (London, 1889). Citation is by book and chapter of William's work, with the page number in parentheses.

Regards,
Curt

*********[De La Pole.FTW]

Sources: A. Roots 121E, 243A; Kraentzler 1160, 1443, 1453; RC 162, 166; Coe; Guizot; The Normans and Their Myth (chart) by R.H.C. Davis; Pfafman; WED Stokes; A History of the Vikings by Gwyn Jones; Ashley; Norr, p59.
He established the Northmen in France and was the first Duke of Normandy. Count of Rouen. Conquered Normandy. Also known as Hrolf (Gongu-Hrolfr), Rollon, Ganger and Granger Rolf.
WED says the area near "Mora, Norway, was the domain of the jarl of More, whose son Hrolf, with his followers...in 911 settled in the district later known as Normandy."
Roots: Ganger Rolf, "the Viking (or Rollo), banished from Norway to the Hebrides ca. 876; 890 participated in Viking attack on Bayeux, where Count Berenger of Bayeux was killed, and his daughter Poppa taken, 886, by Rollo (now called Count of Rouen) as his "Danish" wife. Under Treaty of St. Clair, 911, received the Duchy of Normandy from Charles III, "the Simple."
Davis: Rollo, ruler of Normandy from 911-931. The dukes of Normandy free married with non-Scandinavians. "Rollo is said to have married the daughter of the Frankish king and to have had his son by the daughter of a Frankish count. That son, William, married the daughter of a Frankish count and had his son, Richard, by a Breton. None of the dukes' wives came from Scandinavia or England, and by the first half of the 11th century their family connections were typically French." An early historian, Dudo, said Rollo was Danish.
Ashley: Count Rolllo or Rolf the Viking., died 993?
Norr: Rollo or Rolf, 1st duke of Normandy 912-917-(927), born about 856. He was of the same Danish origin as the ancestors of the English which his descendants conquered in 1066.

BIOGRAPHY: Norwegian Viking settled at mouth of Seine. After fighting many battles, made an agreement with King Charles 'The Simple' - received land in Normandie and 911 became 1st Duc de Normandie and vassel of King.

MISC: Acquired Neustria which became NORMANDY. Founder of Normandy 911

BIRTH: ABT 846/854

OCCUPATION: Banished from Norway to the Hebrides abt 876, 890 participated in Viking attack on Bayeux, where Count Berenger of Bayeux was killed, and dau. Poppa captured and taken, 886, by Rollo (now called Count of Rouen) as his "Danish" wife. Under Treaty of St. Claire, 911, received the Duchy of Normandy from CHARLES III, "the Simple"; d. abt. 927 or 931, buried Notre Dame, Rouen. Besides a dau. Gerloc (Adela) who m. 935 WILLIAM I, Count of Poitou, Ganger Rolf had WILLIAM I, "Longsword", b. abt 891, prob. Rouen, abt. 927 succ. to Duchy of Normandy, abt 930 the Bretons rebelled, he subdued them, taking Brittany, the Channel Islands, the Contentin, and the Averanchin; killed in treacherous ambush 17 Dec. 942 by servants of Theobald of Blois and Arnulf of Flanders. Norse chieftain and Viking leader; m. 1st POPA de BAYEAUX; invaded northwestern France (abt 890-910); received Rouen and adjacent territory by treaty with CHARLES the Simple of France --- beginning of Normandy; ancestor of Norman royalty.

Also called ROLF, or ROU, French ROLLON, Scandianvian rover who founded the duchy of Normandy.

Making himself independent of King Harald I of Norway, Rollo sailed off to raid Scotland, England, Flanders and France on pirating expeditions and, about 911, established himself in an area along the Seine River. Charles III the Simple of France held off his siege of Paris, battled him near Chartes, and negotiated the treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, giving him the part of Neustria that came to be called Normandy; Rollo in return agreed to end his brigandage. He gave his son, William I Longsword, goverance of the dukedon (927) before his death. Rollo was baptized in 192 but is said to have died a pagan. Source: www.eb.comALIAS: Rollo Rognvaldsson, 1st Duke of Normandy

Alternate name found in file: Rolf "the Ganger" 1st Duke of Normandy

Rollo, also called ROLF, or ROU, French ROLLON (b. c. 860--d. c. 932), Scandinavian rover who founded the duchy of Normandy.

911-Under treaty of St Claire received Normandy from Charles III King of France

Making himself independent of King Harald I of Norway, Rollo sailed off to raid Scotland, England, Flanders, and France on pirating expeditions and, about 911, established himself in an area along the Seine River. Charles III the Simple of France held off his siege of Paris, battled him near Chartres, and negotiated the treaty of Saint-Clair-sur-Epte, giving him the part of Neustria that came to be called Normandy; Rollo in return agreed to end his brigandage. He gave his son, William I Longsword, governance of the dukedom (927) before his death. Rollo was baptized in 912 but is said to have died a pagan. [Encyclopaedia Britannica CD, 1997, ROLLO]

Banished from Norway to the Hebrides ca. 876.
------------------------------

The following information, arguing against Rollo's ancestry as I have it (certainly putting it to question), is contained in a post-em by Curt Hofemann, (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Note: I am still sticking with my ancestry, which is based on information in CP, considered a very reliable source, though no source is perfect. I tend to want to stick up for the Norse "legends" contained in the sagas, believing that because they are easy targets, living in a time when there was no writing, many people deny their existence, holding them to the same standard as say "Charlemagne" or other historic figures who were written about by contemporaries.):

I apologize in advance for the length of this.

Rollo "the Ganger" 1st Duke of NORMANDY
911: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Paget p135]
properly Hrolf; known from his stature as Gongu-Hrolf, 'Rolf the walker' because no horse could carry him [Ref: Watney p740]
name: Rolf the Ganger [Ref: Tapsell p202]
911-932: Duke of Normandy [Ref: Tapsell p202]

born: 846 [Ref: Moriarty p10] abt 846 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p11, Watney #740], parents: [Ref: Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11, Paget p135, Watney #740]

married Poppa 886: danish wife [Ref: Moriarty p10] first and third wives of Rollo, repudiated but afterward remarried after 919 [Ref: Paget p135], names: [Ref: Henry Project citing (Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998), Book ii Chapter 16 p38-9; Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204), Moriarty p11, p226, 39 Tompsett, Wurts p422]

married Gisele of France 912: [Ref: ES II:79, Paget p135]

died: 933 [Ref: ES II:75new] 927 [Ref: Watney 740] 931 [Ref: ES II:79, Moriarty p10, Moriarty p11] 932 [Ref: Paget p135, Tapsell p202] 931 [Ref: Wurts p422]

Rolf, known to his Frankish posterity as Rollo, was probably born of Norwegian stock, being the son of Rognvald, Earl of More, and before his formal establishment in Gaul he had a long career as a Viking, raiding not only in France but also, as it seems, in Scotland and Ireland. In 911, having entered Gaul afresh, perhaps by way of the Loire valley, he was defeated in a pitched battle outside the walls of of Chartres, and it was after this that he and his followers were given lands by the emperor in the valley of the lower Seine. Whether this famous grant of lands and recognition was made (as tradition later asserted) after a formal interview between Charles [King Charles III the Simple of France] and Rolf at Saint-Claire-sur Epte is questionable, and the application of the term 'treaty' to these arrangements is undoubtedly too precise. What, however, is certain is that before 918 Rolf and his followers already held considerable lands in this region, and that they had been formally confirmed in possession of them by the emperor. Equally certain is that in token of the new position he was henceforth to occupy in Gaul, Rolf accepted baptism at the hands of the archbishop of Rouen. [Ref: Wm Conqueror p17]

Rollo (later Robert) "of Normandy" Viking leader in France, d. 928933. Although he is often referred to as the first duke of Normandy, that title is an anachronism. Probably about 911 [see Douglas 426-31], king Charles the Simple of France ceded a district around the city of Rouen to Rollo, which eventually evolved into the duchy of Normandy. He is said to have been baptized in 912, assuming the Christian name Robert [Dudo ii, 30 (p. 50)]. He was still living in 928, when he was holding Eudes, son of Heribert of Vermandois, as a captive [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 928, see PL 135: 439, van Houts 45], and was probably dead by 933, when his son William was mentioned as leading the Normans [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 933, see PL 135: 445, van Houts 45]. [Ref: Henry Project] note: the citations Douglas, Dudo, Flodoard, PL & van Houts are further identified in the Bibliography at the bottom of this page...Curt

Since the article by Duglas (sic) [Duglas (sic), David, English Historical review 1942, p417-36] seems to be one of the main secondary sources used by many who support the alleged Norwegian origin of Rollo, a brief discussion of Douglas's article is in order.

I agree with Duglas (sic) that the reference to Rollo as "filio Catilli" by Richer of Rheims can be dismissed. Richer used the generally reliable chronicle of Floodoard as a framework, which he then expanded with much legendary material of dubious value. This Catillus is a significant figure in Richer, but is apparently unknown from other sources, and his legendary nature is evident. The statement that Rollo was the son of Catillus is apparently an attempt by Richer to amplify the fame of Catillus (whose existence is doubful) by giving him a famous son.

Duglas (sic) then outlines the well known saga statements regarding Rollo's supposed identification with Ganger-Rolf, son of Rognvald. To support his claim that "Rollo" is an acceptable Latin form for "Hrolfr", Duglas (sic) brings forward a single charter [a charter of Richard II for St. Quen, which predated Dudo and the other later sources, mentions the _atavus Ralphus_ of the Duke] which reads "atavus Rolphus" (not Ralphus) which appears to be referring to Rollo (p.421). However, as Duglas (sic) admits, the charter itself is not above suspicion. Another example mentioned in a footnote is a certain Turstinus fillius Rolv who was apparently the same person as a Turstinus filius Rollonis. This is a very small sample to make the claim that Rollo was a Latin form for Rolf. Just as likely is the possibility that the names Rollo and Ralph were confused in a couple of manuscripts. Since Ralph was such a common name in Normandy and England, we should see a large number of examples of "Rollo" and "Ralph" being used as the same name, if they were in fact the same. Since the number of examples which Douglas was able to produce is so small, it is more likely that some sort of copying mistake was made on the above examples, in which the uncommon name Rollo was accidently replaced by the extremely common (and similar) Ralph. Important negative evidence is not given, for Douglas never mentions that there is a Norse name "Hrollaug" for which "Rollo" is an obvious Latinized form. Since the sagas give Rognvald of More two clearly different sons named Hrollaug and Hrolf, it would be difficult to argue that Hrollaug and Hrolf are supposed to be the same name. The main other piece of evidence Douglas gives for accepting the saga account is the supposed confirmation of a saga statement about Granger-Rolf in the contemporary records. The following statement by Ari is quoted: "Another son of Othere (he says) was Helge. He harried in Scotland and won there as his booty Nithbeorg, daughter of King Beolan and of Kathleen, daughter of Ganger-Rolf." Duglas (sic) then reads between the lines, and states that since Kathleen is a Celtin name, her mother would almost certainly be a Christian. He then turns to the nearly contemporary "Lament for the Death of William Longsword", which states that William was born outside France of a Christian mother at a time when his father was still pagan. He then states: "The suggestion of the Landnamabok is thus confirmed by an epic poem composed in Gaul in the tenth century. The fact would seem to be a powerful, if not a conclusive, argument in favor of the identity of Rollo with Ganger-Rolf." The first sentence in the above quote is completely false. There is not a single detail in the quote from Ari which is confirmed by the statement in "Lament for the death ..." This argument used by Duglas (sic), in which he deduces an additional statement not in the original, so that there is something which can be "confirmed" is unacceptable. The fact that Douglas would refer to such an argument as "powerful" only serves to emphasize how weak his argument really is. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin 7 Dec 1996] (Note: "Duglas" referred to above is actually spelled Douglas. David C. Douglas, Fellow of the British Academy, Emeritus Professor of History, University of Bristol, Ford's Lecturer to the University of Oxford & editor of a series of studies of the English monarchs...Curt)

According to the Orkneying Saga (late twelfth century), Rognvald, jarl of More in Norway, was the father (among others) of a certain Hrolf, who became the first duke of Normandy, and is therefore intended to be identified with the historical Viking Rollo, who appears in the contemporary Frankish annals of the tenth century. Those who accept this view base their argument on these late Icelandic sources. In my opinion, the Icelandic sources are worthless for early Norman history, and should be rejected as a source for Rollo's parentage. Some of the basic reasons for this opinion are as follows:

1. The Icelandic sources are both late and foreign when it comes to Norman history. Other than the very well known fact that William the Conqueror was descended from the dukes of Normandy, the Icelandic sources do not offer a single fact about early Norman history which can be corroborated in the contemporary continental sources. In fact, the Icelandic sources say remarkably little about early Norman history, which is suspicious for a source which supposedly knows the origin of Rollo.

2. The Norman sources, which are both native and considerably earlier than the Icelandic sources, tell a completely different story about the origin of Rollo, who is said to be of Danish origin. Even though some of the early Norman sources (such as Dudo) have been criticized for their innacuracy (and for deliberate embellishment), it is still reasonable to suppose that early native sources would be more reliable on the matter of Rollo's origin than late foreign sources.

3. Unfortunately, the early tenth century is not well covered by the Frankish sources. However, even though the Norman sources have clearly embellished and romanticized the material on Rollo, the story of a Danish origin for Rollo fits quite well with what the Frankish sources for the late ninth century (a better covered period) say about the Danish invasions during that earlier period.

4. Contrary to what has been frequently claimed, the names Hrolf and Rollo do not appear to be the same. The Norse name Hrollaug, which is a different name (see #5), is the name which would have "Rollo" as a reasonable Latinization. The claim that "Hrolf" was Latinized as "Rollo" by mistake is unlikely, because the Franks were quite familiar with the name, and a different Viking raider named Hrolf from the ninth century has his name correctly Latinized as "Rodulf" in the contemporary ninth century sources.

5. Fifth, and most important, the Icelandic sources give Rognvald of More several sons two of whom are Hrolf, allegedly the same as the founder of Normandy, and Hrollaug, an early Icelandic settler. First, this shows that Hrolf and Hrollaug were regarded as different names. However, it also causes a big problem in the Icelandic story. If we are to believe the Icelandic account, Hrolf went to Normandy, where he was then known as Rollo/Hrollaug, i.e., the name of Hrolf's brother. If the Icelandic story were true, why would both the Frankish and Norman sources both refer to "Hrolf" by the name of his brother Hrollaug? (Claiming that the Icelandic sources were almost right, and that Rollo of Normandy was the same as Hrollaug son of Rognvald, is not feasible, because Hrollaug's role as an early settler of Iceland clearly marks him as a different person from Rollo of Normandy.) I would like to see this problem explained away by someone supporting position that Rollo was Rognvald's son. By the way, this last point (#5) has, to my knowledge, not been mentioned before (except by me in previous postings on the same subject), and I therefore have an obvious personal interest in knowing if this particular point has been mentioned by others. If point #5 has already been made somewhere else in the literature, I would be interested in having the reference.

Thus, in my opinion, for the reasons given above, Rollo of Normandy was was probably not the son of Rognvald of More, and his parentage should be regarded as unknown. [Ref: Stewart Baldwin 16 Mar 1998]

also known as Hrolf or Rollon, 1st Duke of Normandy from 911 to 927, called also Rolf the Walker, because, being so tall, he preferred to go afoot rather than ride the little Norwegian horses. Also shown as Rollon, Row, or Robert Originally a Norse Viking, he was noted for strength and martial prowess.

It is more likely that the title "Duke" is a tenth or eleventh century construct, as even the title count was not introduced until later documents, usually refered as count of Rouen. Neither Rollo or his son William Longsword issued many written instruments - certainly none that survive in the original.

Rollo the Dane, also known as Hrolf or Rollon, 1st Duke of Normandy from 911 to 927, called also Rolf the Walker, because, being so tall, he preferred to go afoot rather than ride the little Norwegian horses. Also shown as Rollon, Row, or Robert. Originally a Norse Viking, he was noted for strength and martial prowess. In the reign of Charles II, the Bald, he sailed up the Seine River and took Rouen, which he kept as a base of operations. He gained a number of victories over the Franks, and extorted the cession of the province since called Normandy. By the famous treaty which Charles the Bald and Rollo signed the latter agreed to adopt Christianity. He was born in 846 and died in 932, and was buried in the Cathedral at Rouen. He married (1) Gisla, daughter of Charles the Simple, King of France, no issue; (2) Lady Poppa de Valois, (means puppet or little doll), daughter of Pepin de Senlis de Valois, Count Berenger (Berenarius) of Bretagne, Count of Bayeux, and sister of Bernard of St. Liz (Senlis), also recorded as Berenger, Count of Bayeux. Rollo lived with her for some time before the marriage. [Ref: McBride2]

Dudo (contemporary with Rollo's grandson Richard I and informed by Richard's half-brother) states that Rollo was a Dane and had a brother whose name (I forget the form Dudo used) can be interpreted as Gorm or Guthorm. He portrays him as an extremely active individual rampaging, sacking, looting, and then being bought off by the French king to stop other vikings from doing the same, being baptized as Robert.

The Orkneyinga saga, which dates from a good bit after the time of William the Conqueror (great-grandson of Richard I and great-great-great-grandson of Rollo) says that the Jarl of Orkney had a brother Hrolf the Walker, who conquered Normandy and was ancestor of the Norman kings of England. It explains the nickname as indicating that he was so fat he could not ride a horse. He is a Norwegian, and had numerous brothers (including, oddly enough, one named Rollo), but none named Gorm or Guthorm.

Now there are no absolute answers here, but one thing is clear. The accounts of Dudo and of the Orkneyinga saga are completely incompatable. Every single detail, other than that the man conquered Normandy, - name, ethnicity, physical characteristics, siblings, are all different. Obviously one of these sources is in error. Both contain material which is demonstrably false, and which has been used in the past to discredit them. However, Dudo probably actually knew people who knew Rollo, and it is difficult to come up with a motive for falsification of these details (why bother substituting danish for norwegian, for example) while the Orkneyinga saga author had no such direct connection, and furthermore had motive to invent such an ancient connection, to further glorify the family are the center of his tale. Still, nothing of this sort is certain, but given what each of the sources have to say, you have to give the nod to Dudo, which would mean that Rollo would not be identical to the Hrolf of the saga, and the claim that he was the founder of Normandy must rest on some sort of mistaken identity or intentional forgery. [Ref: TAF 27 Feb 2002]

Hrlfr (son of Rognvaldr) is, often (but dubiously) identified with Rollo of Normandy [Ref: Henry Project]
Below is from the Henry Project, compiled by Stewart Baldwin at http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/rollo000.htm
Commentary
Supposed father: Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre.
Supposed mother: Ragnhildr or Hildr.

The origin of Rollo is contraversial. There are several medieval sources which claim to give information about the origin of Rollo, the most widely repeated of which would make him a son of Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre by Ragnhildr or Hildr. As can be seen from the following brief notices, the various primary sources offer very contradictory information about Rollo's origin.

The earliest author to attribute an explicit origin to Rollo was Richer of Rheims, writing between 996 and 998, who called Rollo the son of another Viking invader of France named Catillus (presumably representing the Norse name Ketil) [Richer i, 28 (see PL 138: 35)]. Since Catillus appears to be a legendary individual, this account has generally been discredited, probably correctly [see Douglas 420-1].

According to Dudo of St. Quentin (writing early 11th century), author of the earliest history of the Normans, Rollo had a younger brother named Gurim, presumed to be the familiar name Gorm. Dudo states that Rollo and Gurim were sons of a man who held many lands in "Dacia" (Dudo's word for Denmark, following other authors), and that after the death of the (unnamed) father of Rollo and Gurim, the king of Dacia fought against the sons, killing Gurim and driving Rollo out [Dudo ii, 2-4 (pp. 26-7)]. Dudo later refers to duke Richard I as being related to a "king of Dacia" named Haigrold [Dudo iv, 84-88 (pp. 114-20 passim)], who must have been the Viking raider of France of that name [Flodoard's Annals, s.a. 945, see PL 135: 463-4, van Houts 51], and not king Harald "Bluetooth" of Denmark. Note that Gurim cannot be the famous Gorm "the Old" of Denmark, who survived Rollo by many years.
William of Malmesbury (early 12th century) appears to be the earliest author to attribute a Norwegian origin to Rollo [WM ii, 5 (p. 125)].

As is well known, the Orkneyinga Saga (late twelfth century) [OrkS 4 (pp. 29-30)], followed by other Icelandic sources (such as the well known Heimskringla and Landnabk), gives Rollo the name Hrlfr, and make him a son of Rognvaldr, jarl of Mre, and brother of (among others) jarl Torf-Einarr of the Orkneys [OI 1: 187]. Earlier sources, such as Ari's slendingabk (early to middle 12th century), mention Rognvald of Mre and his son Hrollaugr who settled in Iceland, but not the supposed connection to the dukes of Normandy [Ari 49, 61]. A poem allegedly written by Einar mentions his brothers, including a Hrlfr, but does not connect Hrlfr to Normandy, and does not name a Gorm among the brothers. (See ...Rognvaldr for more on this poem.)

Historia Gruffud vab Kenan (ca. 1250), apparently a Welsh translation and/or revision of an earlier Latin life of Gruffudd ap Cynan, gives Haraldr Hfagri of Norway ("Harald Harfagyr") a brother named Rodulf (i.e., the Latin form of Hrlfr) who is called the founder of Normandy [HGK, 3-4]. However, this is evidently a corrupt version of the Scandinavian version, and the suggestion that Rollo was a brother of Haraldr Hfagri need not be given any credence.

The most prominent argument of the case for accepting the Scandinavian account that Rollo was the same person as Hrlfr, son of Rognvaldr of Mre, was given by D. C. Douglas [Douglas 419-23], and those who accept this identification have generally followed the same arguments. On the other side, arguments against the identification were given by Viggo Starcke in his book Denmark in World History [Starcke 222-7].

Most of the argument of Douglas consists of accepting the tale of the sagas and rejecting evidence from the Norman sources which contradict the saga version, while explaining away the problems (on which more below). The evidence which Douglas puts forward as "a powerful, if not a conclusive, argument in favor of the identity of Rollo with Ganger-Rolf" concerns a passage in Landnàmabk that refers to a daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr:
"... Annarr son ttars vas Helge; hann herjaÇ Skottland, ok feck ar at herfange NiÇiorgo, dttor Beolans konungs ok CaÇnar, dttor Gongo-Hrlfs" (Another son of ttarr was Helge. He harried in Scotland, and won there as his booty NiÇjorg, daughter of king Beolan and CaÇn, daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr.) [OI 1: 66-7]
This passage, which Douglas attributed to "Ari the Learned" (who may or may not have been the author), is then compared with a passage from the nearly contemporary Plaintsong of Rollo's son William "Longsword" which was written soon after William's death:

"Hic in orbe transmarino natus patre
in errore paganorum permanente
matre quoque consignata alma fide
sacra fuit lotus unda"

(Born overseas from a father who stuck to the pagan error and from a mother who was devoted to the sweet religion, he was blessed with the holy chrism.)
[Douglas 422 (Latin); van Houts 41 (English translation)]

After explaining that the two stories are consistent with one another, Douglas then state that "[t]he suggestion of the Landnabk is thus confirmed by an epic poem composed in Gaul in the tenth century." While it is true that the two accounts as they stand are consistent with each other and with the claim that Rollo and Gongu-Hrlfr were the same man (ignoring all other evidence), it is surely a gross overstatement to claim that the Plaintsong "confirms" the other account, for there is not a single statement in the passage from Landnabk that is confirmed by the Plaintsong. This is a clear case of circular reasoning, for without first assuming that Rollo and Gongu-Hrlfr were the same man, there is no evidence that the two passages have any relation whatsoever. Douglas's case is further undermined by the fact that another source [Laxd?la Saga chapter 32, see OI 1: 246] makes NiÇjorg's mother CaÇn a daughter of Gongu-Hrlfr, son of Oxna-Þrir, directly contradicting the thesis that CaÇn was supposedly a granddaughter of Rognvaldr of Mre. Yet, Douglas apparently regarded this as the strongest part of his argument.

There are three main strands of evidence (somewhat related to each other) against the identification of Rollo with Hrlfr son of Rognvaldr:

1. The discrepancies between the Norman and Icelandic sources.
Among other contradictions, the Norman sources give Rollo a brother named Gurim, while the Icelandic sources give Hrlfr several brothers, none of them named Gormr (the presumed Old-Norse form for Gurim). Although both of the sources have their problems, earlier native sources would seem to have a higher priority than later foreign sources. While many elements of the Dudo's account are clearly legendary, there appears to be no clear motive on the part of Dudo (writing less than a century after Rollo's death) to invent a younger brother for Rollo who is then immediately killed off.

2. The general unreliability of Norse source for the early tenth century.
For the period under consideration, i.e., the early ninth century, the sagas have a poor record for reliability, even for Scandinavian history. For example, consider the following words of Peter Sawyer (written with regard to a different matter, but true in general), a well known expert on early Viking history: "... These sagas cannot, however, be accepted as reliable sources for the tenth century. The only trustworthy evidence for the tenth century in those sagas are the contemporary verses around which the saga writers wove their tales." [Sawyer 42] None of these verses confirm the identity of Rollo and Hrlfr. The suspicion is made even larger by the fact that the Icelandic sources show no knowledge of Norman history other than the fact (well known throughout Europe at the time) that William the Conqueror was a descendant of the dukes of Normandy.

3. Rollo and Hrlfr appear to be different names.
The natural Latinization of the name Hrlfr would be Radulfus or Rodulfus. Yet, the Frankish and Norman sources consistently refer to the founder of Normandy as Rollo. Since these sources also include numerous individuals named Rodulfus, and consistently separate the two names, it appears that the names were regarded as different. Douglas explained this by suggesting a hypothetical hypochoristic form "Hrolle" of the name "HroÇulf" as the basis for the name Rollo, and provides a single charter in which Rollo is referred to as "Rolphus" as evidence that the names were the same, acknowledging, however, that the charter itself was "not above suspicion." If the names were really regarded as the same, it would be expected that more convincing evidence to this effect could be offered.

Personally, I am inclined to believe that the identification of Hrlfr and Rollo has no basis in fact, that it was likely to have been invented by a saga writer who wanted to give the jarls of Orkney some famous relatives (i.e., the kings of England), and that whatever the confusing Norman sources say are probably about the closest we are going to get to Rollo's origin. However, based on the surviving evidence, it is not possible to come to any definitive conclusion one way or the other, and Rollo's parentage should be listed as "unknown" unless further evidence becomes available.

Supposed additional child:
CaÇin (Kathleen), said by Norse sources to have married a certain king Beolan, who is otherwise unidentified. As discussed above, the evidence for her is less than satisfactory.]

Bibliography
Ari = Halldr Hermannsson, ed. & trans., The Book of Icelanders (slendingabk) by Ari Thorgilsson (Islandica, vol. 20, Ithaca, 1930).
Dudo = Eric Christiansen, ed. & trans., Dudo of St. Quentin, History of the Normans (The Boydell Press, Woodbridge, Suffolk, 1998). Citation is by book and chapter of Dudo's work, with the page number in parentheses.
Douglas = D. C. Douglas, "Rollo of Normandy", English Historical Review 57 (1942), 417-36.
Flodoard's Annals = See PL 135 (Latin), and van Houts (2000), 42-51 (English translation of excerpts relating to the Normans).
GJ = Guillaume de Jumies, Gesta Normannorum Ducum, as edited in Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Gesta Normannorum Ducum of William of Jumies, Orderic Vitalis and Robert of Torigni, 2 vols., (Oxford, 1992). Citation is by book and chapter of Guillaume's work, with the volume and page number of the edition by van Houts in parentheses.
HGK = D. Simon Evans, ed., Historia Gruffudd vab Kenan (Caerdydd, 1977).
Keats-Rohan = Keats-Rohan, K. S. B., "Poppa of Bayeux and her Family", The American Genealogist 72 (1997), 187-204.
OI = Gudbrand Vigfusson and F. York Powell, ed. & trans., Origines Islandicae, 2 vols. (Oxford, 1905).
OrkS = Herman Psson & Paul Edwards, ed. & trans., Orkneyinga Saga (London, 1978). Citation is by chapter, with the page number in parentheses.
PL = Migne's PatrologiS?(Latin)
Richer = Richer of Rheims (see PL 138 for the text, in Latin). Citation is by book and chapter of Richer's work, with the page number in parentheses.
Sawyer = Peter Sawyer, 'The Last Scandinavian Kings of York', Northern History 31 (1995), 39-44.
Starcke = Viggo Starcke, Denmark in World History (Philadelphia, 1962, a translation of the Danish edition of 1946 by Frank Noel Stagg, Ingeborg Nixon, and Mrs. Elmer Harp).
van Houts = Elisabeth van Houts, ed. & trans., The Normans in Europe (Manchester & New York, 2000) [gives English translations of many of the primary sources relevant to early Norman history]
WM = J. A. Giles, ed. & trans., William of Malmesbury's Chronicle of the Kings of England (London, 1889). Citation is by book and chapter of William's work, with the page number in parentheses.

Regards,
Curt

*********[De La Pole.FTW]

Sources: A. Roots 121E, 243A; Kraentzler 1160, 1443, 1453; RC 162, 166; Coe; Guizot; The Normans and Their Myth (chart) by R.H.C. Davis; Pfafman; WED Stokes; A History of the Vikings by Gwyn Jones; Ashley; Norr, p59.
He established the Northmen in France and was the first Duke of Normandy. Count of Rouen. Conquered Normandy. Also known as Hrolf (Gongu-Hrolfr), Rollon, Ganger and Granger Rolf.
WED says the area near "Mora, Norway, was the domain of the jarl of More, whose son Hrolf, with his followers...in 911 settled in the district later known as Normandy."
Roots: Ganger Rolf, "the Viking (or Rollo), banished from Norway to the Hebrides ca. 876; 890 participated in Viking attack on Bayeux, where Count Berenger of Bayeux was killed, and his daughter Poppa taken, 886, by Rollo (now called Count of Rouen) as his "Danish" wife. Under Treaty of St. Clair, 911, received the Duchy of Normandy from Charles III, "the Simple."
Davis: Rollo, ruler of Normandy from 911-931. The dukes of Normandy free married with non-Scandinavians. "Rollo is said to have married the daughter of the Frankish king and to have had his son by the daughter of a Frankish count. That son, William, married the daughter of a Frankish count and had his son, Richard, by a Breton. None of the dukes' wives came from Scandinavia or England, and by the first half of the 11th century their family connections were typically French." An early historian, Dudo, said Rollo was Danish.
Ashley: Count Rolllo or Rolf the Viking., died 993?
Norr: Rollo or Rolf, 1st duke of Normandy 912-917-(927), born about 856. He was of the same Danish origin as the ancestors of the English which his descendants conquered in 1066.

BIOGRAPHY: Norwegian Viking settled at mouth of Seine. After fighting many battles, made an agreement with King Charles 'The Simple' - received land in Normandie and 911 became 1st Duc de Normandie and vassel of King.

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Timeline Hrolf (The Ganger) Ragnvaldsson or Rollo Ragnvaldsson

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