Rutpert IV (Count) of WORMGAU; Robert `Fortis' `Strong' de MARVOIS; aka Rodbert `le Fort' of NEUSTRIA; Count of PARIS
ROBERT "le Fort", son of --- ([815/30]-killed in battle Brissarthe 2 Jul 866). Robert´s birth date range is estimated assuming that his known sons were born in [850/60] as shown below. The parentage of Robert "le Fort" is obscure. Some general indications of his origin are found in near contemporary sources, but these are contradictory. An unspecific Franconian origin is favoured by the Annales Xantenses which name him "Ruodbertus ortus de Francia, dux Karoli" when recording his death[3], and by Widukind who refers to his son King Eudes as "ex orientalibus Francia"[4]. A Saxon origin is suggested by two sources: firstly, Richer names "ex equestre ordine Rotbertum" as father of King Eudes and his "avum paternum Witichinum advenam Germanum"[5]; secondly, the Miracula Sancti Benedicti names "Robertus, Andagavensis comes, Saxonici generis vir"[6]. Abbon refers to his son Eudes King of France as "Neustrien fils de la Neustrie"[7]. Other early sources specifically state that nothing is known of the origins of Robert, for example Rodulphus Glaber ("cuius genus oscurum")[8]. The possible identity of Robert´s mother is suggested by the charter dated 20 Feb "anno XXVII regnante domino Carolo rege" under which "Robertus beati Martini abbas et comes" confirmed donations to Tour Saint-Martin made "olim ab Odone quondam comite Aurelianensi avunculo nostro et Willelmo eius filio"[9]. However, there are two possible interpretations of the dating clause of this document. If it refers to Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks, whose reign is normally dated from the death of his father in Jun 840, the year would be [867] the year after Robert "le Fort" died. Another possibility is that the clause refers to Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks, in which case the year would be 920, indicating that the donor was the future Robert I King of France, rather than Robert "le Fort", although this would not change the significance of the relationship described ("avunculus" could also have been used in the document in the sense of "great-uncle"). As discussed further below, Anatole de Barthélemy uses this document as part of his argument for identifying Guillaume Comte de Blois as the father of Robert "le Fort". However, "avunculus" in its strict sense indicates "maternal uncle" and, while the terms "patruus" (paternal uncle) and "avunculus" (maternal uncle) are frequently used interchangeably in contemporary primary source documentation, it is possible that the relationship was through a sister of the two brothers Eudes Comte d´Orléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois, who could have been the mother of Robert "le Fort". If this is correct, he would have been Robert "le Fort", son of --- & his wife ---. It should be emphasised that this hypothesis is speculative. Another possibility is that, assuming that the donor was the future Robert I King of France as suggested, the relationship could have been through his mother, the wife of Robert "le Fort", who could have been the niece of the brothers Eudes Comte d´Orléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois.
Four more specific suggestions about Robert´s paternal ancestry have been made:
Firstly, many modern secondary sources identify him as Robert [Rodbert], son of Rodbert Graf im Wormsgau & his wife Wiltrud ---, who was first named in Germany in 836 as "son of the late Rodbert Graf von Wormsgau", in a donation to Mettenheim[10]. No primary source has yet been found which points specifically towards this suggested co-identity, although it is consistent with the Franconian origin referred to by the Annales Xantenses and by Widukind, as noted above. It is assumed that the suggestion is based primarily on onomastics, although the first secondary source which proposed the connection has not yet been identified and therefore has not been checked. The author in question may have assumed that Robert was a unique name among noblemen in France in the first half of the 9th century, although this ignores Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau en Berry, who was the possible brother of the wife of Pepin I King of Aquitaine (see the document CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY). The timing of the supposed arrival of Robert from Franconia, assuming that the co-identity is correct, is not ideal either. Robert would presumably have fled Germany after opting to support Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks in the latter´s fight against his brother Ludwig II "der Deutsche" King of the East Franks. This dispute is dated to 858/59: King Ludwig invaded in Aug 858, when King Charles was faced with widespread rebellion, and was defeated in Jan 859. However, Robert "le Fort" is already named as missus in Maine, Anjou and Touraine in Nov 853, in a document issued by King Charles II (see below), unless of course this document refers to Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau, which is not impossible.
Secondly, there is a possible connection between Robert "le Fort" and the family of Aledramn [I] Comte de Troyes, who died in [852] (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY). Such indications are provided by Regino who names "Waltgerius comes, nepos Odonis regis, filius scilicet avunculi eius Adalhelmi in Aquitanien" when recording his battle against "Ramnulfum et fratrem eius Gozbertum et Ebulonem abbatum de sancto Dionysio " in Jul 892, and names "Megingaudus comes, nepos supradicti Odonis regis [son of Robert "le Fort"]" when recording his death, also in 892[11]. A further indication is found in the charter dated 14 Sep 937, under which Robert "le Fort"´s grandson "Hugues abbé de Saint-Martin" donated "son alleu de Lachy dans le comté de Meaux" to Tours Saint-Martin, specifying that he had inherited the property from "comte Aledramnus" who had been granted it by Charlemagne[12]. It should be noted, however, that all these sources would be consistent with the family connection between Robert "le Fort" and Adalhelm being through the female line, or even through Robert´s wife.
Thirdly, an interesting possibility is indicated by Europäische Stammtafeln which names the first wife of Comte Robert as "[Agane]"[13]. It cites no corresponding primary source, but presumably the suggestion is based on the Miraculis Sancti Genulfi which names "Agana filia Byturicensium comes Wifredus [et] Oda coniux" as wife of "Roberto viro primoque palatii Pipini regis"[14]. This "Roberto" can probably be identified as Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau en Berry, the supposed brother of the wife of Pepin I King of Aquitaine (this relationship is referred to by Settipani, but he neither quotes nor cites the corresponding source[15]). Could it be possible therefore that he was the same person as Robert "le Fort"? If this was the case, it would be consistent with the Saxon origin which is suggested by Richer and by the Miracula Sancti Benedicti (see above). The supposed father of Robert de Sesseau was Theodebert Comte de Madrie who, it is suspected, was related to the family of Nibelung and Childebrand (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY). The Saxon connection of the latter family is suggested by the name Theoderic (nine different individuals named Theoderic have been identified in the family), which was first recorded in Saxony in the family of Widukind by Einhard in 782 (see the document SAXONY).
Fourthly, Anatole de Barthélemy suggests that Robert was the son of Guillaume Comte de Blois, who was killed in battle in Jun 834 (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY)[16]. This suggestion was accepted by René Merlet[17]. Barthélemy bases his theory on the exchange of property in the county of Blois made by Comte Robert dated 865 (see below), concluding that Robert "avait son principal établissement à Blois en pleine Neustrie, ce qui confirme singulièrement l´allégation d´Abbon" (who refers to Robert´s Neustrian origin, see above)[18]. Barthélemy also quotes a charter under which "Robertus beati Martini abbas et comes" confirmed donations to Tour Saint-Martin made "olim ab Odone quondam comite Aurelianensi avunculo nostro et Willelmo eius filio", dated 20 Feb "anno XXVII regnante domino Carolo rege"[19]. As noted above, the dating clause of this document may either refer to King Charles II "le Chauve" or to Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks, in the latter case the donor being the future Robert I King of France not Robert "le Fort", although this would not change the significance of the relationship described ("avunculus" could also have been used in the document in the sense of "great-uncle"). As discussed further above, the term "avunculus" reminds us that the relationship, as described in this charter, could also have been through a sister of the two brothers Eudes Comte d´Orléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois.
Whatever the truth about Robert´s parentage, his career in France is recorded with certainty from 853, although Merlet suggests that he was named in a charter dated I Oct 845[20]: Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks restored property to Hincmar Archbishop of Reims which he had previously granted to his supporters, including property granted to " Rotbertus ", by charter dated 1 Oct 845[21]. This co-identity is not beyond doubt. A document issued by King Charles II "le Chauve" dated Nov 853 names "Dodo episcopus, Hrotbertus et Osbertus" as missi in "Cinnomannio, Andegavensi, atque Turonico, Corboniso, et Sagiso"[22]. The Annales Bertiniani record that "Pippinus" joined with "Rotberto comiti et Britonibus" in 859[23], which suggests that Robert had earlier rebelled against King Charles II in Brittany. Robert submitted to the king's authority, when he was given command of the march of Neustria, which had been confiscated from the Rorgonid family for supporting the revolt of Louis (later King Louis II) against his father[24]. Regino records that King Charles II "le Chauve" invested "Rodberto comiti" with "ducatum inter Ligerim et Sequanam adversum Brittones" in 861[25]. The Annales Bertiniani record that "Rodbertus" attacked "Salomone duce" [duke of Brittany] in 862[26]. The Annales record that King Charles´s son, the future King Louis II "le Bègue", rebelled against his father in 862 and, heading an army of Bretons, defeated "Rotbertum patris fidelem" in 862, after which he burned Angers yet again[27]. Count in the march of Anjou [862/63]: the creation of the "march" of Anjou is probably dated to the early 860s, as the Annales Bertiniani name "Rodberto, qui marchio in Andegavo fuerat" in 865[28]. This change of jurisdictional status must have been insufficient to control the Bretons and the Vikings because Robert is named in the Annales Bertiniani in 865 in the context of King Charles imposing direct rule in the area by sending "Hludowicum filium suum" into "Neustriam" and granting him "comitatum Andegavensem et abbatiam Maioris-monasterii et quasdam villas illi", while recording that Robert was compensated with "comitatum Autissiodorensem et comitatum Nivernensem". "Le comte Robert" donated "certains biens situés dans le comté de Blois, dans la viguerie d´Averdon au village dit Gabrium et faisant partie du domaine de Saint-Lubin" to Actard Bishop of Nantes in exchange for other property "situés au même lieu et dépendant aussi du domaine de Saint-Lubin" by charter dated May 865[29]. Merlet suggests that this charter indicates that Robert "le Fort" was Comte de Blois at the time[30]. However, another possibility is that the county indicated was the "march of Anjou" to which Robert had been appointed count some years before (see above). Comte d'Auxerre and Comte de Nevers 865. The Annales Bertiniani name "Rodbertus et Odo" as "præfecti" in the Seine valley area in 866 when recording that they repelled the Vikings who had sailed up river as far as "castrum Milidunum"[31]. "Odo" is presumably identified as Eudes Comte de Troyes, who died 1 Aug 871 (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY) and who, according to René Merlet, may have been the brother of Robert "le Fort"[32]. The Annales Bertiniani record that "Rotbertum et Ramnulfum, Godtfridum quoque et Heriveum comites" were defeated by the Vikings at "Brieserta" in 866, where Robert was killed[33]. The Adonis Continuatio records that "Robertus quoque atque Ramnulfus inter primos ipsi priores" were killed by the Vikings in 866[34].
The name of Comte Robert's wife or wives is not known, but there are indications that he married more than once, maybe three times. One possibility can be dismissed immediately: one passage in the Chronicle of Saint-Bénigne, interpolated into the Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines, names "Regine, que cum esset iuvencula fuit concubina Karoli Magni iam senioris" as wife of "Roberti Fortis marchionis"[35]. This is chronologically impossible as Regina must have been born in [785] at the latest (the birth of her older son is recorded in 801), and therefore was far too old to have been Robert´s wife. Three possibilities remain:
[m [firstly] ---. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[36], the first wife of Comte Robert was "[Agane]". The primary source on which this is based is not noted, but as stated above, it is probably the Miraculis Sancti Genulfi which names "Agana filia Byturicensium comes Wifredus [et] Oda coniux" as wife of "Roberto viro primoque palatii Pipini regis"[37]. As discussed above, this would mean that Robert "le Fort" was the same person as Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau en Berry. If this co-identity is correct, Agane would have been too old to have been the mother of the recorded children of Robert "le Fort". It would therefore be consistent for her to have been Robert´s first wife.]
[m [secondly] ---. If the theories relating to Robert´s possible first and third marriages are correct as set out in the present document, the chronology dictates that the wife who was the mother of his children, born in [850/60], must have been a different person. There is no indication who she might have been, apart from the charter dated 20 Feb "anno XXVII regnante domino Carolo rege" which is discussed above. If, in accordance with one of the possibilities suggested above, the dating clause in this document refers to the reign of Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks, the donor must have been the future Robert I King of France. In this case, the relationship "avunculus" described in the document could have been through the donor´s mother, the wife of Robert "le Fort" which, if correct, would mean that Robert´s second wife could have been the niece of the brothers Eudes Comte d´Orléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois.]
[m [thirdly] ---. Some secondary works[38] assert that the wife of Robert was Adelais [de Tours], widow of Conrad Comte de Paris et d'Auxerre [Welf], daughter of Hugues Comte de Tours & his wife Ava ---. If this is correct, Adelais must have been Comte Robert's second or third wife as Conrad died after 862, by which date Robert's known children were already born. The assertion appears to be based on the Chronicle of St Bénigne de Dijon which names "duo filii Rotberti Andegavorum comitis, frs Hugonis abbatis, senior Odo Robertus alter"[39], "Hugonis abbatis" being the son of Conrad Comte de Paris and assuming that "frs" is an abbreviation for "fratres". Settipani states that the passage is a 12th century interpolation and has little historical value, although he does suggest that it is likely that the wife of Comte Robert was a close relation of Adelais (without providing the reasoning for his statement)[40]. A family connection between Comte Robert and Conrad Comte de Paris is also suggested by the former being invested with the county of Auxerre in 865, after this county was confiscated from the latter (as recorded by Hincmar[41]), on the assumption that there was some basis of heredity behind the transmission of counties in France at that time (which is probable, but remains unproven).
Comte Robert & his [second] wife had three children:
1. EUDES [Odo] (in Neustria [after 852][42]-La Fère-sur-Oise 3 Jan 898). Herimannus names "Odo filius Roudperti" when recording his assuming power in "Gallia usque ad Ligerim et in Aquitania" after the death of Emperor Karl III[43]. The Chronicle of Adémar de Chabannes records that "Odonem ducem Aquitanio" succeeded as king of France, stating that he was "filius Raimundi comitis Lemovicensis"[44], although it is not known on what information this may be based. He succeeded his father in 866 as Marquis en Neustrie, but was dispossessed in 868 by Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks in favour of Hugues l'Abbé. He was created Comte de Paris 882-83, after unsuccessfully challenging Hugues l'Abbé for his inheritance. Abbot of Saint-Martin de Tours: "Odo...comes et...abbas...Sancti Martini" returned property in Italy "Solarium...et Vallem Caumoniam" to the abbey by charter dated Apr 886, subscribed by "Ademari comitis, Attonis vicecomitis..."[45]. "Eudes comme abbé de Saint-Martin" exchanged "la villa de Marsat en Auvergne et la villa Dronius" for "les villæ Balneacum et Vineas situées en Berri dans le vicaria Corboninse" with Frothaire Archbishop of Bourges by charter dated May 886[46]. He was finally invested as Marquis de Neustrie in Sep 886, following the death during the siege of Paris of Duke Heinrich (who was ancestor of the "alte" Babenberg family, see the document FRANCONIA NOBILITY) to whom Emperor Charles II had granted the territories of Robert "le Fort" on the death of Hugues l'Abbé earlier in the same year[47]. "Odo Parisiorum pagi comes" donated land at Fontenay, Charenton to Notre-Dame by charter dated to before 888, subscribed by "Roberti comitis, Altmari comitis"[48]. He was acclaimed as EUDES King of France 29 Feb 888. He was consecrated king at Compiègne by the Archbishop of Sens. King Eudes defeated the Normans at Montfaucon-en-Argonne 24 Jun 888, after which he was recognised as king by Arnulf King of the East Franks who sent royal insignia for a second consecration at Reims 13 Nov 888[49]. He was succeeded by the Carolingian Charles III "le Simple", who had been consecrated as anti-king at Reims 28 Jan 893, as recorded in the agreement reached in 897 between the two adversaries after Eudes defeated Charles[50]. The Annales Prumienses record the death "898 III Non Ian" of "Odo rex"[51]. The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Denis records the death "IV Non Jan" of "Odo rex"[52]. m as her first husband, THEODERADA, daughter of --- (-18 Oct [after 900]). "Odo rex" confirmed the possessions of "monasterio Vedastino" by charter dated 21 May [891/92] which names "coniux nostra Theoderada"[53]. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[54], she was Theoderada, [daughter of Adelramn [II]]. The primary source on which this is based has not yet been identified. Settipani says that it has no historical basis[55]. Nevertheless, Theoderic, supposed son of Adelramn [II], was a strong supporter of King Eudes, as recorded in the Annales Vedastini[56], which is best explained by a family connection: if the relationship is correct, he would have been Theoderada´s brother. She married secondly Otto. Her second marriage is confirmed by the Kalendarium Sanctæ Mariæ Virdunensis, which records the death "XIV Kal Jul" of "Otto comes venerabilis qui dedit fratribus Haraudi montem, Bresadi villam, Samepodium"[57], read together with the necrology of Verdun Cathedral which records the death "XV Kal Nov" of "Theudrada regina et postea sancti monialis qui cum viro suo Hattone dedit fratribus Haraldi montem"[58]. These two sources make it clear that "viro suo Hattone" named in the second cannot refer to Eudes King of France, who would not have been called "Otto comes" in the first. King Eudes & his wife had [three] children:
a) children . King Eudes refers to his unnamed children in 889 according to Settipani, who does not cite the primary source on which this is based[59].
b) [RAOUL ([882]-after 898). He is named as son of King Eudes in Europäische Stammtafeln[60] but the primary source on which this is based has not been identified. King of Aquitaine.]
c) [ARNOUL ([885]-898). The Chronicle of Adémar de Chabannes records that "filius eius Arnulfus" succeeded on the death of his father "Francorum rege Odone" but lived only a short time[61]. This is the only source so far identified which mentions Arnoul.]
d) [GUY [Wido] . "Alanus" [Duke of Brittany] signed a charter dated 28 Aug 903 witnessed by " Guido filius Ottonis regis Franciæ qui tunc erat cum Alano"[62]. According to Settipani, the charter is a forgery[63].]
2. ROBERT ([860]-killed in battle near Soissons 15 Jun 923). "Rodbertum fratrem Odonis regis" is named in the Cartulaire de Saint-Bertin[64]. He was elected ROBERT I King of France in 922.
He is married to Adelaide de Tours.
They got married in the year 864.
Child(ren):
Rutpert IV (the Strong) de Neustria | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Adelaide de Tours | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The data shown has no sources.