Harrower Family Tree » John Harrower (1755-????)

Persoonlijke gegevens John Harrower 

• Hij is geboren in het jaar 1755.Bron 1
• Hij is gedoopt op 14 januari 1755 in Clackmannan, Clackmannanshire, Scotland.Bron 1
• Een kind van John Harrower en Jean Archibald

Gezin van John Harrower

Hij is getrouwd met Agnes Callandar.

Zij zijn getrouwd op 30 november 1776 te Alloa, Clackmannanshire, Scotland, hij was toen 21 jaar oud.Bron 2

Kind(eren):

1. George Harrower  1788-1852 
2. John Harrower  1783-????
3. James Harrower  1786-1852 
4. Janet Harrower  1780-????
5. Agnes Harrower  1779-????
6. Jean Harrower  1777-????

Notities over John Harrower

1. Traditional naming patterns -
Scots often named children by following a simple set of rules:

1st son named after father's father - John Harrower Y
2nd son named after mother's father - James Callander?
3rd son named after father - John Harrower. No, 3rd. son was named George as John had already been taken. Y
1st daughter named after mother's mother - Jean Archibald Y
2nd daughter named after father's mother - No. 2nd daughter named Agnes after the Mother, as Jean had already been taken.
3rd daughter named after mother - Janet may be an Aunt, Sister to John or Agnes?

2. At date 21/06/12, see 1. above - Guess only - Traditional naming patterns ----- Georges parents have been recorded as John Harrower and Agnes Calender (also from Google search - various sites on Internet). No evidence ex christian names taken from traditional naming patterns @ Scotlands People ie as close a family as can be found at the time. Info on Georges birth, parents marriage etc in media folder but not yet linked 21/06/12.

3. Investigating further May 2018. Possible. Not Proven!

4. In February 2021, I was contacted by Stuart Haraway, from America, who was trying to trace his family.

FEBRUARY 20 2021
Hi Colin, my name is Stuart Haraway and I live in Arkansas (U.S.). While researching my 5th GGF, Alexander Harrower, I came across your tree and noticed that your male line and mine may connect in the 1660's Perth area. Alexander came to the British Colony of Virginia in the early 1700's as an indentured servant. He died there in 1740. I have been trying to determine his place of origin but all records of such, to my knowledge, no longer exist. Looking at surname distributions, he likely came from Scotland, but that is a guess. In an effort to confirm his place of origin, I've been looking at 5 different Alexander Harrower individuals born in Scotland during the estimated time frame he was born. One of those had a brother named William (b. 1691, Tulliallan, Perth) who married an Elizabeth Stephen. Together they had a child John Harrower (b. 1711, Alloa, Clackmannan). John married Jean Archibald (b. 1711, Alloa, Clackmannan) and together they had John Harrower (b. 1755, Clackmannan) which appears to be your 4th GGF. If I've done the research correctly, your 6th GGF William and the Alexander I am currently investigating were brothers. Would you be interested in working together to see if this is true? Doing so could help extend your Harrower line further back and help me get closer to determining my 5th GGF's place of origin. I can send you some documents supporting the above assertions if you like.
Regards, Stuart

FEBRUARY 21 2021
Hi Stuart, interesting stuff. I have recorded John Harrower and Agnes Callander as 4th gg parents and John Harrower and Jean Archibald as 5th gg parents as a search trial. I cannot confirm that. I can only confirm up to George Harrower and Isabell McArthur m. 1812. Yes, please send me info, and yes I can help you,
Colin

FEBRUARY 22 2021
Hi Colin, I can send you screen shots and describe how I worked from William (b. 1691), Alexander's brother, down to John (b. 1711) and his marriage to Jean Archibald. What is your email? Or if you prefer not to use email, we can direct message if you're on Facebook. And yes, it's difficult to know if we're dealing with the correct individuals in some cases, particularly with the "Johns" such as John (b. 1711) and John (b. 1755). It's those two I worry I may have their spouses wrong. Have you done DNA testing with Ancestry or any of the other companies?
Stuart

FEBRUARY 23 2021
Hi Colin, My methodology that led to finding you and your tree goes like this:
Made educated guess that my 5th GGF, Alexander Harrower, came from Scotland. To check that assumption, I hired a genealogist that looked at not only my autosomal DNA matches at Ancestry, but my YDNA matches at FamilyTreeDNA (although they are very distant YDNA matches and not useful for the timeframe we’re interested in) and he determined that my male line comes from a small area in East Central Scotland. I’ve attached a copy of his report. It’s an interesting read. I’m not sure how he was able to pinpoint my male ancestry to such a small area, so I have wondered how accurate it may be. See attachment “Haraway a Scottish Origenes…I then went to the Scotlands People web site and began looking for all Alexander Harrowers born anywhere in Scotland between 1690 and 1710 (based on estimated birth range of 1700-1708 for my 5th GGF).
Only two Alexanders were returned. See attachment “Alexander Harrower (b. 1695)”. I made a guess that the son of John Harrower and Agnes Weightman is my 5th GGF because he is closer to the estimated birth range but yes, it’s a guess.
I then looked for Alexander’s siblings by searching for the children of John Harroway and Agnes Weightman. This returned 8 records with full names (Hester, Alexander, John, William, Agnes, Elizabeth, Isobel, and Margaret). See attachment “Children of John Harrower and Agnes Wightman”.
I then searched for the marriages of these children, then the children of those children, and so on creating a descendant tree for John Harrower and Agnes Wightman.
In the case of William Harrower (b. 1691), he had a child named John. John married Jean Archibald. John and Jean also had a son named John who married Agnes Callander and I think that is when I stumbled on to your tree.
I hope the above descendancy is correct, but we both know there’s more than a few guesses and assumptions involved. And is the Alexander above the correct one to begin with?
DNA testing can help in situations like the above when we think the lineage is correct, but the paper trail is not clear. Since we’re wanting to confirm male lineage, YDNA testing is the better choice. If you do a YDNA test and match with me, it will support, if not confirm, that William is your 6th GGF, Alexander is my 5th GGF and the above assumptions are correct. It would mean that your YDNA and mine are similar because we both got ours from William and Alexander’s father, John Harrower. William then passed it down the paternal line to you, and Alexander to me.
If we match, it will give an estimate of how recent you and I share a common male ancestor. For example, it may say: “90% probability of sharing a common ancestor within the past 8 generations”. If we get that kind of estimate, I will be thrilled to say the least. If we don’t match, it means I need to go back to the drawing board - I have the wrong Alexander, or maybe he came from England or somewhere else.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t do the Ancestry autosomal DNA test. If you do, it will help you find relatives on both sides of your family and therefore research other lineages. And BTW, if you do an autosomal DNA test, I recommend Ancestry because they have the largest database of people who have tested; therefore, you’ll get more matches at Ancestry than at other sites. You can also download your DNA data from Ancestry and upload it (for free in most cases) to other sites like MyHeritage, FamilyTreeDNA and LivingDNA to see if you get matches with users on their sites.
But for the purpose outlined above, the Ancestry test is not likely to be helpful. Because it is an autosomal DNA test, it fails to detect matching DNA after about 6 generations.
I would like to pay for your YDNA test because it’s me who wants to find out if this Alexander is my 5th GGF. If we match, my plan is to locate and hire a professional genealogist there in Scotland to see if more documentary evidence can be found. If we don’t match, at least you will have your results and can see all the males with whom you do match, and further advance your male line family research.
If interested, I simply order the kit and have it sent to you. It’s a cheek swab if I remember correctly (been awhile since I did mine). You mail it back (return postage paid if I remember correctly), and we wait for results. You have full control of your account at FamilyTreeDNA - not me.
Hope that helps. Let me know, Stuart

FEBRUARY 23 2021
Hi Stuart, I got your Email. Thanks. Truly interesting reading. I am in total agreement with the author, as the majority of the Harrowers in my family are from the area, he points you to.
Alva & Stirling in Stirling(shire), Alloa, Clackmannan & Tillicoultry in Clackmannan(shire).
My Paternal Grandfather John Harrower was born in Hawick on the Scottish border, but his Father was born in Alloa.
John was a Butcher, who eventually came to Fife and ended up the Manager of a Butchers shop in Leven, Fife.
The majority of Harrowers in the 1800’s from these areas work in the Woollen Industry, i.e. Weavers, Dye workers, Spinners, with a few exceptions. Clackmannan and Hawick are famed for the Woollen or Tweed Mills, in the nineteenth century, and still are.
The majority of my tree is made up with people working in the coal industry, in Fife, Clackmannan, and the Lothians.
In my recollection, when I first started doing my tree, I came across a family of Harrowers, Farmers in Windyhill Farm, Tulliallan. Turns out they were no relation, at that time, I disregarded that info.
Funny how the information you’ve given me, turns out to be a Harrower family, children all born in Tulliallan.
There are also Harrowers in Cowdenbeath and Ballingry, a village close by, that (I don’t think anyway) are not related to me.
To date, I have uncovered 19 Colin Harrower’s related.
I remember when young, asking my Mum and Dad why they called me Colin. The reply was “We just liked the name” Shows how we’ve come on!
All of my research, I do on Ancestry and Scotlands People, although I have used a Genealogist to dig out court papers for Thomas Reid, my 3rd Great Grandfather, when I found him in Perth Prison, in the 1861 Census. He served a year sentence in Perth, for the crime of Forgery, and did a few other stints in Jedburgh Jail for theft.
He ended up committing suicide, while being sought after by the Police, by drowning himself in the River Bowmount, in Roxburgh, on the Scottish border.
The info she got was amazing, so it kinda proves they have better access to records. I can visit Scotlands People and NLS in Edinburgh and do research there, as its only ¾ hour on the train.
All these places in Edinburgh are shut now, due to Covid. Its easier to do it from the comfort of your home!
I have started looking at the DNA info you sent me. Because I hadn’t looked into it I wasn’t sure how it worked. I kept thinking “How can you check the DNA of a deceased Person”.
I didn’t realise you can do a match with a suspected relative!
There appears to be 2 YDNA tests, a Y37 and a Y111. Not sure what the best one is, I’ll leave that up to you.
As I said to you previously, I’ve been updating and tidying up my tree on a daily basis, with information I had previously found, but never recorded, and in the last year I have started transcribing b, d, & m, records and added them to the record sources. The info you’ve given me has opened up a new route! Hopefully the correct one, so I’ve turned to that again.
I don’t usually add records without 100% proof, but did in this case, as I was 99% certain that John H. and Agnes Calendar, and John H. and Jean Archibald, were related, only due to the names of their children.
I’ve picked up your blog site @ https://harrowaygenealogy.blogspot.com/2020/06/my-earliest-known-ancestor-in-my.html and also got your tree in Ancestry. You obviously have access to my online tree, but it’s not been updated for ages, as when I upload to the site, it makes a muck up of my offline tree.
Not sure how? I’ve tried sending you my tree as a Gedcom, but it’s too big a file. I’ll get another way.
Keep in touch, Cheers, Colin

FEBRUARY 24 2021
Hi Colin, that’s some interesting family history, and I got the invite to your tree on Ancestry - thanks.
You mentioned that several of your ancestors were in the Woollen industry long ago and some were weavers. I stumbled on to a website once that reported Alexander’s occupation as “Weaver”. I haven’t been able to determine how they got this information or its source.
Well, I’m excited to see where the DNA takes us.
It’s best to start with the Y37. That one will confirm whether we are a match or not. If we are, then we can upgrade (no new sample needed) to the Y111. The Y111 looks at more markers on the Y chromosome and thus can provide a higher “resolution”, or a more precise estimate of how close we are related.
For me to order the test and have it shipped to you, can you send me your address?
As I write this, you have probably retired for the evening.
If you can private message me your address via Facebook Messenger, then I can get the order started even if I am at work tomorrow. I can’t remember if they need anything other than your name, physical address and email, but if they do we can chat back and forth while I fill out the order.
Have a good evening. Stuart

APRIL 19 2021
Hi Stuart, Here’s the excel file of Matches. I’ve just read your post about Craig Phillip. I’ve got lots of ancestors from Clackmannan. Cheers for now

APRIL 20 2021
Thanks Colin, I looked at your account and indeed we are not a match. In fact, we belong to different haplogroups which means our lines branched apart thousands of years ago.
If you go to your home page and click on “Migration Maps”, you’ll see a brief history of your haplogroup. Yours is concentrated in Western Europe. Mine (J-M172) is more concentrated in Eastern Europe and along the Mediterranean coasts. One theory for how J-M172 got into the British Isles is through Roman occupation.
It may be there is a Harrower clan somewhere who descends from a Roman soldier, and I just haven’t found them yet! Oh well, I must remind myself sometimes “this is just a hobby”.
Another possible explanation for me not matching any Harrowers in Scotland is that of a non-paternal event. In other words, an illegitimate child somewhere in my tree. So, I am going to test a known male cousin here stateside, who descends directly from Alexander, and see if I can prove or disprove this possibility.

Yes, you do match with Craig Philip Harrower, a fellow who tested for me back in December. In fact, you and he are a close match. You’ll see him at the top of your match list. Click on the small, orange “TIP” icon. It will give you the probabilities of how recent you two share a common male ancestor. You can message him, share genealogy notes, and maybe figure out the relation.
The reason you see so many unfamiliar surnames is because Y-DNA not only detects recent relationships (like Craig), but also very distant one’s going WAY back in time. Therefore, those “non-Harrowers” you see are still related to you, but their lines branched off from yours several hundred years ago, before surnames were in use. When surnames came in to use around 1000-1500 AD, these cousins of yours simply chose different surnames. You are now matching with their descendants.
Thanks again for testing. I really appreciate it. Contact me if you have any questions. Stuart.

APRIL 23 2021
Hi Mr Harrower this is another Mr Harrower and I believe we may be related after reading my matches on mydna. I have details of my family history if you would like to collaborate with yours and see where we are related?
Cheers, Craig Harrower

APRIL 24 2021
Hi Craig, I am 63, live in Cowdenbeath, born in Dunfermline 1957. Moved to Cowdenbeath when my Dad got promoted to Police Sergeant. Been here ever since.
Married a Cowdenbeath Lassie, and have two boys, Craig and Grant.
Craigs a Royal Marine, and Grants studying Chinese in his last year at Edinburgh.
I worked in Rosyth dockyard as a Mechanical Fitter starting my time in 1974 and retired 3 years ago.
I met a couple of Colin Harrowers who worked in Dockyard from Clackmannan.
Cheers, Colin

APRIL 24 2021
Hi Craig, It appears that the match is John Harrower, b. c1755, who married Agnes Callander in 1776, at Alloa.
Their son, George b. 1788 was my 3rd Great Grandfather, who married Isabell McArthur in 1812 at Clackmannan.
Your line appears to come from his brother, John Harrower, b.1783, who marries Mary Strang in 1812 at Clackmannan.
I take it from what I see, your Father is William, Grandfather is Andrew Rankine and your Great Grandfather is Robert Malcolm Harrower?
John b. 1755 appears to be the only link.
I have had a thought that he was related as the names of his and Agnes’s children follow a pattern.
I also have an incline that John Harrower and Jean Archibald are John b. 1755 parents.
Cheers for now, Colin

APRIL 24 2021
Hi Stuart, I thought I would keep you up to date. Hope you’re well.
Last night I received an e mail from Craig Phillip Harrower regarding the match between himself and me.
He’s now sent me his line.
He has recorded John Harrower, b. 1755, who married Agnes Callander in 1776, at Alloa, as his earliest known ancestor.
Their son, George b. 1788 was my 3rd Great Grandfather, who married Isabell McArthur in 1812 at Clackmannan.
Craig’s line appears to come from George’s brother, John Harrower, b.1783, who marries Mary Strang in 1812 at Clackmannan. John is recorded in my tree, but I have not recorded his marriage.
A question, if I may:
Craig has George Harrower, b. 1788 in his tree. I take it, because he’s also recorded John Harrower and Agnes Callander as George and Johns parents, does that “confirm” that John Harrower and Agnes Callander are my 4th Great Grandparents.
I’ve enclosed a copy of Craigs tree, (be it a wee bit out of focus) and also a word doc. For your info.
Cheers for now. Have a good weekend, Colin

APRIL 24 2021
Hello Colin, I am Roy Harrower, Craig’s uncle. He forwarded the emails that you sent him regarding our shared history.
It was me who did the research and it would seem that your 3rd GGF is the brother of my 3rd GGF. So I’m very pleased to meet you.
If there’s anything that I can help you with regarding the tree just ask. Unfortunately I got stuck travelling back from the mid 1700s and am curious to know if you have any information on him.
I noticed you’re a Fifer. I’m over the water in Kirkliston now. My Uncle Robert lived and worked in the Dunfermline/Rosyth area. Something makes me think he worked in the dockyard too. I’m sure think his son Ronnie did. I believe Ronnie was a bit of a rogue in his day, probably met your dad. I’m an ex-cop also, so always attracted funny looks from him. Like you I was born in 57 and well retired now. Cheers, Roy

APRIL 24 2021
Hi Roy, Pleased to meet you as well.
Craig mentioned you in his first e mail. I have always thought that John Harrower & Agnes Callander were my 4th Great Grand Parents. Because of names of their children, I also believe that Johns parents are John Harrower & Jean Archibald.
I am new to DNA testing, so are you able to confirm that John Harrower & Agnes Callander are both our 4th Great Grand Parents, as that is a common match in our DNA?
Have you got any further back. I've enclosed an excel file showing further back, but cant prove further back than our common ancestor, ?John? b. 1755.
Have a look at it and get back to me.
Going back to JOHN HARROWER/AGNES WIGHTMAN, was the work of Stuart Haraway, from USA, who contacted me. I did the DNA test, but unfortunately he was not a match, which was disappointing. Oh well, found another match with your family. Funny to find out you were a Polis as well!
Can you please send me a link to you tree, if possible. I use Ancestry.co.uk
My tree is available on Ancestry, and also the YDNA website.
Any information you can give me would be great
Cheers for now, Colin

APRIL 24 2021
Hi, The furthest I’m back is the parents of John 1749. [JOHN b. 07/06/1749 Parents JOHN HARROWER/AGNES MCCALLOM] Got their names from the parish notification of his birth. Can’t find anything relevant for them as yet.
You should receive an email inviting you to view my Ancestry tree, Roy

APRIL 25 2021
Hi Colin,
If the assumption is correct that you both descend from John Harrower (who married Agnes Callander), then John is the MRCA (Most Recent Common Ancestor) that you and Craig share.
And he would be your 4th GGF, which is 6 generations back from you.
I logged into your account again (I hope you don’t mind) and generated another TiP report for the match between you and Craig, which is attached. Since most people know with certainty, at the least, who their parents and grandparents are (two generations), I put the “did not share a common ancestor in the last” setting at “2”.
The results show a probability of 89.48% that you and Craig share a GGF at 6 generations back.
With that result, the SP website showing parents John and Agnes in the right place at the right time, having kids with names that match those in your’s and Craig’s trees, there is a very good probability that you and he descend from John. But unfortunately, it doesn’t confirm it. You still need old fashioned genealogy (paper) research for that. It’s possible that whoever did his family research concluded that he descends from John and Agnes without any other sources to support it like bible records, wills, etc. And instead, it is some other not yet identified couple that you and he descend from.
You and Craig are definitely related. Exactly how is not yet clear. You might ask him how it was determined he descends from John and Agnes. If the sources are good, and you also find sources to suggest you descend from this couple, then the DNA simply adds more support.
Best, Stuart

APRIL 25 2021
Good morning Roy
After looking further into our ?? ancestors, Can I ask you a couple of questions?
1. How did you determine that John Harrower and Agnes Callander are in your tree, and
2. How did you determine that John Harrowers Mother was Agnes McCallom, and not Jean Archibald.
There are 10 John Harrowers born between 1740 and 1760, 2 in Tillicoultry, 2 in Clackmannan, and 2 in Culross, the rest outside the area.
John Harrower and Agnes Mccallom, appear to have only one child, John b. 1749 in Clackmannan.
The names of John Harrower and Agnes Callander children are
Jean b. 1777, Agnes, b. 1779, Janet b. 1780, John b. 1783, James b. 1786, and George b. 1788.
The way I see it, using the Scottish naming pattern, not always followed -

1st son named after father's father - John Harrower Y
2nd son named after mother's father - James Callander?
3rd son named after father - John Harrower. No, 3rd. son was named George as John had already been taken. Y
1st daughter named after mother's mother - Jean ?
2nd daughter named after father's mother - No. 2nd daughter named Agnes after the Mother, as Jean had already been taken.
3rd daughter named after mother - Janet may be an Aunt, Sister to John or Agnes?
That would make Agnes Callander's parents James and Jean?

Further to that: George Harrower, b. 1788 (my line) marries Isobel McArthur, and name their children,
Isabella b. 1814, John b. 1816, Colin b. 1819, Agnes b. 1821, Janet b. 1823, James b. 1826, Peter b. 1828, and George b. 1831
Using the same naming pattern -

1st son named after father's father - John Harrower Y
2nd son named after mother's father - Colin Macarthur Y
3rd son named after father - George Harrower. No, 3rd. Son was named James, the name George was given to the 5th. Son.?
1st daughter named after mother's mother - Isabella Brown Y
2nd daughter named after father's mother - Agnes Callander Y
3rd daughter named after mother - Isobell McArthur. No 1st. Dau. was named Isabella, from the mothers Mother, Isabella Brown.
Janet may be an Aunt b. 26 Nov. 1780, Sister to George Harrower?

I know that we are related as the DNA check proves that, but there's doubt in my mind about where we match.
It may be John Harrower, who marries Agnes Callander, but who is that John Harrower b. 1749 or b. 1755?,
or any of the other births, as we can chose from any of the 10 born around 1750.
Unless we can confirm that, I feel we'll never find that out
Have a wee thought about this and please get back to me cos its dain ma nut in!
Cheers for now, Colin

APRIL 25 2021
Thanks Stuart, that confirms what I thought myself.
Apparently it was Craigs Uncle, Roy Harrower, that did all the research.
Craigs passed all my emails on to him.
I’ve sent another e mail to him explaining my reasons for JH & AC being 6 x GGP, and explaining the Scottish naming pattern, sometimes used.
In this family its 50% correct.
Also the names of children to John Harrower and Jean Archibald, possibly Johns parents.
In their family its 67% correct!
What I have noticed though, the names of Roy’s line 5th GGP, from the John Harrower, b. 1783 and his wife Mary Strang, produce, Alexander, William, Mary, James, Robert and Margaret. Entirely different names to Georges line.
Oh well, possibly never find out any more than we’ve got.
As you say “It’s only a Hobby” ☹
Cheers for now
Colin

APRIL 25 2021
Hi again Stuart,
I was looking for something to do this afternoon.
I started looking at the matches maps on the Y-DNA site.
You might like to know that it appears that I’m an exact match to the guy that investigated your
Y-DNA results and pinpointed your earliest Ancestor Alexander, in central Scotland.

Tyrone Bowes

Name: Mr. Ross David Valentine (c/o Scottish Origenes)
Earliest Known Ancestor: James Vallentine ~ 1820
Marker Location: Fettercairn, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
How much of a co-incidence is that! Cheers again, Colin

APRIL 25 2021
Sorry Stuart, got that wrong he appears to be the contact for the guy Valentine, for new matches
Colin

APRIL 25 2021
Hi Colin,
Yes, the researcher’s name is Tyrone Bowes. I believe he lives in Ireland. He’s the one who pinpointed Alexander’s (probable) geographic origin for me, and my guess is that he is managing the Valentine guy’s kit, doing research for him.
In fact, when you mentioned the Valentine name in association with Tyrone, I faintly remembered Tyrone mentioning the Valentine name in an email.
So, I dug through my deleted emails and here it is:

Hi Stuart,
The Harrower test subject has surname matches of a Gaelic Scottish male with links to Central Scotland, to the west of your identified origin. He is a match to my brother in law Ross Valentine at the 25 marker level (click here). The question is which of you is descended from a Harrower-Adam and which is the non-paternal association? I cannot answer that at present.
Tricky, I think you have to await more matches.

regards, Tyrone

The above conversation was shortly after we looked at Craig’s matches, so the “test subject” he is referring to is Craig. Therefore, you and Craig are related to Valentine, and Tyrone is related to Valentine by marriage. If you do Ctrl + Click on the “click here” link, it should take you to his website where he talks more about Valentine. If the link doesn’t work, try http://www.scottishorigenes.com/news/dna-uncovers-400-year-old-family-secret

And in response to your earlier email, yes, needless to say, finding records from the 1700’s that confirm familial relationships is quite difficult.
Extant records are often lacking on the details we need. Here in the US, especially the southern states, many records from that time frame have been lost to war or fire.
Good luck. You never know, you might find that one Kirk Session record, bible record or will that make it all fit together.
Best wishes, Stuart

APRIL 26 2021
Hi Colin,
It was some years ago when I first kicked this off. I’ve found some of my old notes on the 1700s and can give you an answer to your two questions, I think. My heads nipping too now.
1. I got to John and Agnes Callander working back from my male line. I wasn’t aware of the rules of the names being traditionally passed down, though I did notice the pattern the usage of the same names. John Harrower in my notes has question marks beside his name. In that era the source documents are usually the parish records which as you probably know are vague. He was picked on what I thought was probability, in view of the lack of clear information but regional similarities, name passing and suitable dates range. Conjecture, as a lawyer would say, but I thought it a road to take which didn’t really lead very far.
The John Harrower/ Agnes McCallom partnership was something I was looking at and when I could neither confirm nor reject it I gave up.
So on looking at it again, it has to be revisited. We seem to have the ancestral link there. I’ll work through the info on your email and see if that offers an opening. Would it be possible for you to give me access to your Ancestry tree?
Sorry if it’s muddled things up for you but as we’re retired it’ll keep us occupied.
I’ll let you know how and if I get anywhere.
Cheers, Roy

APRIL 26 2021
Hello again, Roy
Well I’ve started digging again to find out who John Harrower was. Both you and I have him b. 16 Mar. 1873 to John Harrower & Agnes Callander.
I started looking on Ancestry for any clues that I had possibly missed, and came across the death of a John Harrower, in 1862, in Coalfold or Coalfield, Clackmannan.
He died a widower to Mary Strang. His parents were John Harrower and Mary Fife. He was aged 67 when he died, which means his birth around 1795.

Death [HARROWER, JOHN 67 FIFE 1862 466/ 23 Clackmannan]

A search in Scotlands people found a birth in 1794
[HARROWER, JOHN, JOHN HARROWER OR HARRIOT MARY FYFE CHILD 6 M20/04/1794 622/ 30 407 Barony]
The birth record, as you will see, names his father as John Harrower or Harriot, it’s a wee bit smudged, and names him as the 6th child of John Harrower and Mary Fyfe, in Shettleston.
There are also names of 2 witnesses, John Sneddon & John (looks like) Grubbon?

Another search in SP finds:-

Births
HARROWER, NELLY JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 29/07/1781 465/ 50 120 Alloa
HARROWER, MARGARET, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 14/09/1783 465/50 142 Alloa
HARROWER, JAMES, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE M 22/01/1786 465/50 153Alloa
HARROWER, JANE, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 02/12/1787 465/ 50 164 Alloa
HARROWER, THOMAS, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE M 13/12/1789 465/50 176 Alloa
HARROWER, JOHN, JOHN HARROWER OR HARRIOT MARY FYFE (FIFE) M 20/04/1794 622/30 407 Barony B. 09/04/1794 Child 6
HARROWER, WILLIAM, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE M 16/04/1797 466/40 364 Clackmannan
HARROWER, ELIZABETH, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 01/12/1799 466/40 405 Clackmannan
HARROWER, EUPHAN, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 18/04/1802 466/50 33 Clackmannan

John is the 6th child born.
I think this John is the one you’re looking for. There is no other John Harrower who marries a Mary Strang, in SP. You say Mary was born 16th December 1792.
That would bring her closer to his age when they married in 1812

HARROWER, JOHN, MARY STRANG/ 01/08/1812 466/ 50 298 Clackmannan

As you see from the above births, there is no George born to JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE, so I’m still searching.
Hope this helps, hope you’re ok with the findings
Enc: Birth and death of John
Cheers, Colin

April 26 2021
Hi,
A number of years ago, I asked you to research a court case re. a Thomas Reid, who was my 3rd Great Grandfather b. 17 Nov 1815, Kelso.
He was convicted for the crime of forgery and uttering a forged cautionary obligation at Horsemarket Street, Kelso. He had forged his Brother in Laws Signature.
You may have records of this. I was very pleased with the results of that search.
I’m not sure what your search circumstances are now, with Covid.

Some months ago, I received an e mail from Stuart Haraway, in Arkansas, USA, who was also researching his family. He had taken a Y-DNA test and found that, his most distant Ancestor was an Alexander Harrower born around 1700.
Alexander d. in 1740 USA, Stuart had proved that he was an ancestor through his sons,
He used a Genealogist to interpret his DNA results, who suggested that Alexander was Scottish, and born around the Stirling/ Clackmannan/Fife area. (I was born in Dunfermline, and now live in Cowdenbeath).
He saw my tree online (Ancestry), recording my 3rd Great Grandparents George Harrower & Isobel Isabella etc. McArthur. m. 14 Nov 1812, Alloa, census record shows him in 1851 but not in 1861!
George was born 12 Dec 1788. Isabella was born 19 Aug 1788 Clackmannan. George (I think) died 22 May 1852, Clackmannan. No record of parents in OPR Death!
I had also added to my tree, (for web searching on Ancestry) who I thought were Georges parents, due to the names used in the family. I recorded them, at risk, as a John Harrower b. 14 Jan 1755, and an Agnes Callander, b. c 1755, (not yet found). They were married 30 Nov 1776, in Alloa.
I had also recorded who I thought, were John’s b. 1755, parents, again at risk, John Harrower and Jean Archibald, m. 18 June 1736, again due to naming of their children.
Births of John Harrower and Jean Archibald not yet found.
Stuart saw this online, and worked out from there, a line back to William Harrower b. 10 Feb. 1691 & Elizabeth Steven, possibly John’s parents.
They m. 23 Sep. 1711 at Alloa.
Going a generation back from William, b. 1691, John Harrower & Agnes Wightman, m. 16 Dec. 1687, at Tulliallan.
John and Agnes had a family of 9, 2 of which were a William, b. 10 Feb. 1691, and an Alexander b. 10 Mar. 1695.
This was the Alexander that Stuart reckoned was his ancestor, with William, his brother being mine.
I did take a Y-DNA test, at Stuarts request. Unfortunately we were not a match.
As you can see, I am in a predicament as to what my Parental line is, it may have helped if George lived till 1855! 😊

Bottom line I wondered if you had more resources to clear this up. I’ve been pondering this line for nearly 25 years of research, and have been encouraged to find out more with the Assist of Stuart from Arkansas.

My name is
Colin Harrower b. 21 Sep. 1957 Dunfermline
(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)
29 Glenfield Road, Cowdenbeath, Fife
07794812639

I have included an excel file showing what I’ve discussed above. If you require an online tree please visit Ancestry @
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/164924182/family/familyview?cfpid=182144005592 or Geneanet (more recent) @
https://gw.geneanet.org/colinharrower_w?lang=en&n=harrower&oc=7&p=john&type=tree
The excel file shows possible parents of John /Johne Harrower, can you possibly look into that as well?
As I have said, I don’t know your search routines due to Covid, but if you can help in any way, I would be very grateful.
Can you please send me estimate of cost
Thanks in anticipation, any more information feel free to contact me,
Colin Harrower

APRIL 26 2021
Roy,
I think I've downloaded more b, d, and m for John and Mary Fife or Fyfe.
Here's one attached - William Harrower d. 1862 I'll send more as I find them.
Cheers
Colin

APRIL 26 2021
Hi again Stuart,
I said I would keep you up to date, but I don’t think you will believe this!
I sent an Email to Roy, Craigs Uncle, asking him how he had recorded John and Agnes Callander as his GGGP’s??? as you suggested.
I was not entirely confident on his reply. It was to him a bit of a guess, right time right place etc.
Monday morning had me searching again.
I came across a death of a John Harrower, in Clackmannan in 1862.
He was a Widow, age 67, of Mary Strang, and his parents were John Harrower and Mary Fife! Roy’s tree already showed the marriage, in 1812 in Clackmannan.
That made me look for a birth around 1795, where I found his birth to John Harrower and Mary Fife, as the 6th child, in 1794, at Barony, in Glasgow.
Another search proved he was the 6th child:-

HARROWER, NELLY JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 29/07/1781 465/ 50 120 Alloa
HARROWER, MARGARET, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 14/09/1783 465/50 142 Alloa
HARROWER, JAMES, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE M 22/01/1786 465/50 153Alloa
HARROWER, JANE, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 02/12/1787 465/ 50 164 Alloa
HARROWER, THOMAS, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE M 13/12/1789 465/50 176 Alloa
HARROWER, JOHN, JOHN HARROWER OR HARRIOT MARY FYFE (FIFE) M 20/04/1794 622/30 407 Barony B. 09/04/1794 Child 6
HARROWER, WILLIAM, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE M 16/04/1797 466/40 364 Clackmannan
HARROWER, ELIZABETH, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 01/12/1799 466/40 405 Clackmannan
HARROWER, EUPHAN, JOHN HARROWER/MARY FIFE F 18/04/1802 466/50 33 Clackmannan

That now puts him in the position of altering his tree, and removing John Harrower & Agnes Callander and adding JH & MF.
As you can see, there is no Geo. Harrower b. to John and Mary F. so I’m still looking at the same lines.

Looking at Ancestry Family Trees, its amazing (or is it) how many trees are incorrect.
One I looked at had a mix of John Harrower & Agnes Callander and John Harrower and Mary Fife’s children in the tree!
I am now asking myself the question, if Craig and Roy are not related to the John Harrower and Agnes Callander that I am, (possibly) where is the match between us.
It may be that the match goes further back!
Phew, not doing any more till tomorrow,
Regards, Colin

APRIL 26 2021
Hi Colin,
That’s a great discovery!
Yes, my guess would be the common ancestor may be a generation or more back.
And yes, I’ve seen a lot of people at ancestry and other sites get relationships incorrect, connecting families together that shouldn’t be. A lot of those trees are “experimental” trees where they are just trying out various relationships to see what hints might pop up. I’ve been guilty of that myself.
Have a good one, Stuart

APRIL 27 2021
Hi,
Thank you for your enquiry, I hope we can help you trace your Scottish family history. I will review your email and get back to you as soon as possible.
Sometimes, when we are really busy, it can take a few days. In the meantime check out our Facebook group. You may also find some useful information in our Learning Zone.
During the pandemic we have been hosting a series of free family history conferences. Our next conference is scheduled for Saturday 22 May 2021 (click here to register on Zoom). You can also watch the conference for free in our Facebook group.
Kind regards, Emma Maxwell

APRIL 28 2021
Hi Emma.
One other thing I forgot to tell you.
My Y-DNA results came up with a match to a Craig Phillip Harrower, from Clackmannan, where I have ancestors.
He e mailed me and then sent me his tree.
He had John Harrower and Agnes Calender at the top.
I spoke to him again, turned out it was his Uncle, Roy Harrower who did the research.
I asked him how and why he had added John Harrower and Agnes Calender at the top, his reply was not what I wanted to hear. “It looked like the best place and the dates suited”
Hmmm!
I then started another search and found another John Harrower, who died in 1862, age 67. His parents were John Harrower and Mary Fife or Fyfe. He was a widower to Mary Strang.
Craig and Roy had Mary recorded in their tree! Roy had never found the death of John.
I also got his birth in 1794 to John Harrower and Mary Fife.
It seems to me that if we are matches, and the results say we are, the match is further back than we originally thought.
This may help you in your research,
Thanks again,
Colin Harrower

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