Kind(eren):
ROBERT "le Fort", son of --- ([815/30]-killed in battle Brissarthe 2 Jul 866). Roberts birth date range is estimated assuming that his known sons were born in [850/60] as shown below. The parentage of Robert "le Fort" is obscure. Some general indications of his origin are found in near contemporary sources, but these are contradictory. An unspecific Franconian origin is favoured by the Annales Xantenses which name him Ruodbertus ortus de Francia, dux Karoli when recording his death[3], and by Widukind who refers to his son King Eudes as ex orientalibus Francia[4]. A Saxon origin is suggested by two sources: firstly, Richer names ex equestre ordine Rotbertum as father of King Eudes and his avum paternum Witichinum advenam Germanum[5]; secondly, the Miracula Sancti Benedicti names Robertus, Andagavensis comes, Saxonici generis vir[6]. Abbon refers to his son Eudes King of France as "Neustrien fils de la Neustrie"[7]. Other early sources specifically state that nothing is known of the origins of Robert, for example Rodulphus Glaber ("cuius genus oscurum")[8]. The possible identity of Roberts mother is suggested by the charter dated 20 Feb "anno XXVII regnante domino Carolo rege" under which "Robertus beati Martini abbas et comes" confirmed donations to Tour Saint-Martin made "olim ab Odone quondam comite Aurelianensi avunculo nostro et Willelmo eius filio"[9]. However, there are two possible interpretations of the dating clause of this document. If it refers to Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks, whose reign is normally dated from the death of his father in Jun 840, the year would be [867] the year after Robert "le Fort" died. Another possibility is that the clause refers to Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks, in which case the year would be 920, indicating that the donor was the future Robert I King of France, rather than Robert "le Fort", although this would not change the significance of the relationship described ("avunculus" could also have been used in the document in the sense of "great-uncle"). As discussed further below, Anatole de Barthélemy uses this document as part of his argument for identifying Guillaume Comte de Blois as the father of Robert "le Fort". However, "avunculus" in its strict sense indicates "maternal uncle" and, while the terms "patruus" (paternal uncle) and "avunculus" (maternal uncle) are frequently used interchangeably in contemporary primary source documentation, it is possible that the relationship was through a sister of the two brothers Eudes Comte dOrléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois, who could have been the mother of Robert "le Fort". If this is correct, he would have been Robert "le Fort", son of --- & his wife ---. It should be emphasised that this hypothesis is speculative. Another possibility is that, assuming that the donor was the future Robert I King of France as suggested, the relationship could have been through his mother, the wife of Robert "le Fort", who could have been the niece of the brothers Eudes Comte dOrléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois.
Four more specific suggestions about Roberts paternal ancestry have been made:
Firstly, many modern secondary sources identify him as Robert [Rodbert], son of Rodbert Graf im Wormsgau & his wife Wiltrud ---, who was first named in Germany in 836 as "son of the late Rodbert Graf von Wormsgau", in a donation to Mettenheim[10]. No primary source has yet been found which points specifically towards this suggested co-identity, although it is consistent with the Franconian origin referred to by the Annales Xantenses and by Widukind, as noted above. It is assumed that the suggestion is based primarily on onomastics, although the first secondary source which proposed the connection has not yet been identified and therefore has not been checked. The author in question may have assumed that Robert was a unique name among noblemen in France in the first half of the 9th century, although this ignores Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau en Berry, who was the possible brother of the wife of Pepin I King of Aquitaine (see the document CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY). The timing of the supposed arrival of Robert from Franconia, assuming that the co-identity is correct, is not ideal either. Robert would presumably have fled Germany after opting to support Charles II le Chauve King of the West Franks in the latters fight against his brother Ludwig II "der Deutsche King of the East Franks. This dispute is dated to 858/59: King Ludwig invaded in Aug 858, when King Charles was faced with widespread rebellion, and was defeated in Jan 859. However, Robert "le Fort" is already named as missus in Maine, Anjou and Touraine in Nov 853, in a document issued by King Charles II (see below), unless of course this document refers to Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau, which is not impossible.
Secondly, there is a possible connection between Robert "le Fort" and the family of Aledramn [I] Comte de Troyes, who died in [852] (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY). Such indications are provided by Regino who names "Waltgerius comes, nepos Odonis regis, filius scilicet avunculi eius Adalhelmi in Aquitanien" when recording his battle against "Ramnulfum et fratrem eius Gozbertum et Ebulonem abbatum de sancto Dionysio " in Jul 892, and names "Megingaudus comes, nepos supradicti Odonis regis [son of Robert "le Fort"]" when recording his death, also in 892[11]. A further indication is found in the charter dated 14 Sep 937, under which Robert "le Fort"s grandson "Hugues abbé de Saint-Martin" donated "son alleu de Lachy dans le comté de Meaux" to Tours Saint-Martin, specifying that he had inherited the property from "comte Aledramnus" who had been granted it by Charlemagne[12]. It should be noted, however, that all these sources would be consistent with the family connection between Robert "le Fort" and Adalhelm being through the female line, or even through Roberts wife.
Thirdly, an interesting possibility is indicated by Europäische Stammtafeln which names the first wife of Comte Robert as "[Agane]"[13]. It cites no corresponding primary source, but presumably the suggestion is based on the Miraculis Sancti Genulfi which names "Agana filia Byturicensium comes Wifredus [et] Oda coniux" as wife of "Roberto viro primoque palatii Pipini regis"[14]. This "Roberto" can probably be identified as Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau en Berry, the supposed brother of the wife of Pepin I King of Aquitaine (this relationship is referred to by Settipani, but he neither quotes nor cites the corresponding source[15]). Could it be possible therefore that he was the same person as Robert "le Fort"? If this was the case, it would be consistent with the Saxon origin which is suggested by Richer and by the Miracula Sancti Benedicti (see above). The supposed father of Robert de Sesseau was Theodebert Comte de Madrie who, it is suspected, was related to the family of Nibelung and Childebrand (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY). The Saxon connection of the latter family is suggested by the name Theoderic (nine different individuals named Theoderic have been identified in the family), which was first recorded in Saxony in the family of Widukind by Einhard in 782 (see the document SAXONY).
Fourthly, Anatole de Barthélemy suggests that Robert was the son of Guillaume Comte de Blois, who was killed in battle in Jun 834 (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY)[16]. This suggestion was accepted by René Merlet[17]. Barthélemy bases his theory on the exchange of property in the county of Blois made by Comte Robert dated 865 (see below), concluding that Robert "avait son principal établissement à Blois en pleine Neustrie, ce qui confirme singulièrement lallégation dAbbon" (who refers to Roberts Neustrian origin, see above)[18]. Barthélemy also quotes a charter under which "Robertus beati Martini abbas et comes" confirmed donations to Tour Saint-Martin made "olim ab Odone quondam comite Aurelianensi avunculo nostro et Willelmo eius filio", dated 20 Feb "anno XXVII regnante domino Carolo rege"[19]. As noted above, the dating clause of this document may either refer to King Charles II "le Chauve" or to Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks, in the latter case the donor being the future Robert I King of France not Robert "le Fort", although this would not change the significance of the relationship described ("avunculus" could also have been used in the document in the sense of "great-uncle"). As discussed further above, the term "avunculus" reminds us that the relationship, as described in this charter, could also have been through a sister of the two brothers Eudes Comte dOrléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois.
Whatever the truth about Roberts parentage, his career in France is recorded with certainty from 853, although Merlet suggests that he was named in a charter dated I Oct 845[20]: Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks restored property to Hincmar Archbishop of Reims which he had previously granted to his supporters, including property granted to " Rotbertus ", by charter dated 1 Oct 845[21]. This co-identity is not beyond doubt. A document issued by King Charles II "le Chauve" dated Nov 853 names "Dodo episcopus, Hrotbertus et Osbertus" as missi in "Cinnomannio, Andegavensi, atque Turonico, Corboniso, et Sagiso"[22]. The Annales Bertiniani record that "Pippinus" joined with "Rotberto comiti et Britonibus" in 859[23], which suggests that Robert had earlier rebelled against King Charles II in Brittany. Robert submitted to the king's authority, when he was given command of the march of Neustria, which had been confiscated from the Rorgonid family for supporting the revolt of Louis (later King Louis II) against his father[24]. Regino records that King Charles II "le Chauve" invested "Rodberto comiti" with "ducatum inter Ligerim et Sequanam adversum Brittones" in 861[25]. The Annales Bertiniani record that "Rodbertus" attacked "Salomone duce" [duke of Brittany] in 862[26]. The Annales record that King Charless son, the future King Louis II "le Bègue", rebelled against his father in 862 and, heading an army of Bretons, defeated "Rotbertum patris fidelem" in 862, after which he burned Angers yet again[27]. Count in the march of Anjou [862/63]: the creation of the "march" of Anjou is probably dated to the early 860s, as the Annales Bertiniani name "Rodberto, qui marchio in Andegavo fuerat" in 865[28]. This change of jurisdictional status must have been insufficient to control the Bretons and the Vikings because Robert is named in the Annales Bertiniani in 865 in the context of King Charles imposing direct rule in the area by sending "Hludowicum filium suum" into "Neustriam" and granting him "comitatum Andegavensem et abbatiam Maioris-monasterii et quasdam villas illi", while recording that Robert was compensated with "comitatum Autissiodorensem et comitatum Nivernensem". "Le comte Robert" donated "certains biens situés dans le comté de Blois, dans la viguerie dAverdon au village dit Gabrium et faisant partie du domaine de Saint-Lubin" to Actard Bishop of Nantes in exchange for other property "situés au même lieu et dépendant aussi du domaine de Saint-Lubin" by charter dated May 865[29]. Merlet suggests that this charter indicates that Robert "le Fort" was Comte de Blois at the time[30]. However, another possibility is that the county indicated was the "march of Anjou" to which Robert had been appointed count some years before (see above). Comte d'Auxerre and Comte de Nevers 865. The Annales Bertiniani name "Rodbertus et Odo" as "præfecti" in the Seine valley area in 866 when recording that they repelled the Vikings who had sailed up river as far as "castrum Milidunum"[31]. "Odo" is presumably identified as Eudes Comte de Troyes, who died 1 Aug 871 (see CAROLINGIAN NOBILITY) and who, according to René Merlet, may have been the brother of Robert "le Fort"[32]. The Annales Bertiniani record that "Rotbertum et Ramnulfum, Godtfridum quoque et Heriveum comites" were defeated by the Vikings at "Brieserta" in 866, where Robert was killed[33]. The Adonis Continuatio records that "Robertus quoque atque Ramnulfus inter primos ipsi priores" were killed by the Vikings in 866[34].
The name of Comte Robert's wife or wives is not known, but there are indications that he married more than once, maybe three times. One possibility can be dismissed immediately: one passage in the Chronicle of Saint-Bénigne, interpolated into the Chronicle of Alberic de Trois-Fontaines, names "Regine, que cum esset iuvencula fuit concubina Karoli Magni iam senioris" as wife of "Roberti Fortis marchionis"[35]. This is chronologically impossible as Regina must have been born in [785] at the latest (the birth of her older son is recorded in 801), and therefore was far too old to have been Roberts wife. Three possibilities remain:
[m [firstly] ---. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[36], the first wife of Comte Robert was "[Agane]". The primary source on which this is based is not noted, but as stated above, it is probably the Miraculis Sancti Genulfi which names "Agana filia Byturicensium comes Wifredus [et] Oda coniux" as wife of "Roberto viro primoque palatii Pipini regis"[37]. As discussed above, this would mean that Robert "le Fort" was the same person as Robert Seigneur [comte] à Sesseau en Berry. If this co-identity is correct, Agane would have been too old to have been the mother of the recorded children of Robert "le Fort". It would therefore be consistent for her to have been Roberts first wife.]
[m [secondly] ---. If the theories relating to Roberts possible first and third marriages are correct as set out in the present document, the chronology dictates that the wife who was the mother of his children, born in [850/60], must have been a different person. There is no indication who she might have been, apart from the charter dated 20 Feb "anno XXVII regnante domino Carolo rege" which is discussed above. If, in accordance with one of the possibilities suggested above, the dating clause in this document refers to the reign of Charles III "le Simple" King of the West Franks, the donor must have been the future Robert I King of France. In this case, the relationship "avunculus" described in the document could have been through the donors mother, the wife of Robert "le Fort" which, if correct, would mean that Roberts second wife could have been the niece of the brothers Eudes Comte dOrléans and Guillaume Comte de Blois.]
[m [thirdly] ---. Some secondary works[38] assert that the wife of Robert was Adelais [de Tours], widow of Conrad Comte de Paris et d'Auxerre [Welf], daughter of Hugues Comte de Tours & his wife Ava ---. If this is correct, Adelais must have been Comte Robert's second or third wife as Conrad died after 862, by which date Robert's known children were already born. The assertion appears to be based on the Chronicle of St Bénigne de Dijon which names "duo filii Rotberti Andegavorum comitis, frs Hugonis abbatis, senior Odo Robertus alter"[39], "Hugonis abbatis" being the son of Conrad Comte de Paris and assuming that "frs" is an abbreviation for "fratres". Settipani states that the passage is a 12th century interpolation and has little historical value, although he does suggest that it is likely that the wife of Comte Robert was a close relation of Adelais (without providing the reasoning for his statement)[40]. A family connection between Comte Robert and Conrad Comte de Paris is also suggested by the former being invested with the county of Auxerre in 865, after this county was confiscated from the latter (as recorded by Hincmar[41]), on the assumption that there was some basis of heredity behind the transmission of counties in France at that time (which is probable, but remains unproven).
[4] Widukind I, 29, MGH SS III, p. 430.
[5] Richeri Historia I, 5, MGH SS III, p. 570.
[6] Certain, E. de (ed.) (1858) Miracula Sancti Benedicti (Paris) II, p. 93.
[7] Guizot, M. (1824) Collection des mémoires relatifs à lhistoire de France (Paris), Siège de Paris par les Normands, poème dAbbon, Livre II, p. 58.
[8] Rodulfi Glabri, Historiarum I.2, MGH SS VII, p. 53.
[9] Barthélemy, A. de Origines de la maison de France, Revue des questions historiques, Tome XIII, 1 (1873), p. 121, quoting Lecointe, C. (1673) Annales ecclesiastici francorum, Vol. VIII, p. 101 (not yet consulted).
[10] Settipani, C. and Kerrebrouck, P. van (1993) La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987, 1ère partie, Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens (Villeneuve d'Ascq), p. 399, which does not cite the source reference.
[11] Reginonis Chronicon 892, MGH SS I, pp. 604 and 605.
[12] Mabille, E. (ed.) (1866) La pancarte notre de Saint-Martin de Tours brulée en 1793 (Paris, Tours) ("Tours Saint-Martin") LVIII, p. 95.
[13] ES II 10.
[14] Miraculis Sancti Genulfi 6, MGH SS XV.2, p. 1206.
[15] Settipani (1993), p. 354 footnote 1111.
[16] Barthélemy Origines de la maison de France, p. 120-22.
[17] Merlet, R. Origine de Robert le Fort, Mélanges Julien Havet (Paris, 1895), p. 108.
[18] Barthélemy Origines de la maison de France, p. 120.
[19] Barthélemy Origines de la maison de France, p. 121, quoting Lecointe, C. (1673) Annales ecclesiastici francorum, Vol. VIII, p. 101 (not yet consulted).
[20] Merlet, R. Les comtes de Chartres, de Châteaudun et de Blois aux IX et X siècles, Mémoires de la Société archéologique dEure-et-Loir, Tome XII, 1895-1900 (Chartres, 1901), p. 28.
[21] RHGF VIII, Diplomata, LV, p. 478.
[22] Karoli II Conventus Silvacensis, Missi et pagi 8, MGH LL 1, p. 426.
[23] Annales Bertiniani 859, MGH SS I, p. 453.
[24] McKitterick, R. (1983) Frankish Kingdoms under the Carolingians 751-987 (Longman, London and New York), p. 266.
[25] Reginonis Chronicon 861, MGH SS I, p. 571.
[26] Annales Bertiniani 862, MGH SS I, p. 456.
[27] Annales Bertiniani 862, MGH SS I, p. 457.
[28] Annales Bertiniani 865, MGH SS I, p. 470.
[29] Tours Saint-Martin LX, p. 96.
[30] Merlet Les comtes de Chartres, p. 27.
[31] Annales Bertiniani 866, MGH SS I, p. 471.
[32] Merlet, R. Origine de Robert le Fort, Mélanges Julien Havet (Paris, 1895), pp. 106-7.
[33] Annales Bertiniani 866, MGH SS I, p. 473.
[34] Adonis Continuatio Prima, Auctore Anonymo 866, MGH SS II, p. 324.
[35] Chronica Albrici Monachi Trium Fontium 988, MGH SS XXIII, p. 774.
[36] ES II 10.
[37] Miraculis Sancti Genulfi 6, MGH SS XV.2, p. 1206.
[38] Including ES II 10.
[39] Abbé E. Bougaud (ed.) (1875) Chronique de l'abbaye de Saint-Bénigne de Dijon ( Dijon) ("Chronicle St-Bénigne de Dijon"), p. 109.
[40] Settipani (1993), p. 400.
[41] Hincmari Remensis Annales 865, MGH SS I, p. 470.
Bron: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm#_Toc359686914
Robert IV de Sterke, ook Rutpert (ca. 820 - Brissarthe, 2 juli 866), was hertog in Neustrië. Zijn familie staat bekend als de Robertingen of Robertijnen en zijn naar hem genoemd. Zijn bijnaam "de Sterke" werd hem gegeven vanwege zijn militaire successen, vooral tegen de Vikingen.
Robert was graaf van de Wormsgouw als opvolger van zijn broer Guntram. In 840 trok hij naar de omgeving van Orléans om de familiegoederen van zijn overleden moeder te gaan beheren. Als buitenstaander zou hij zich ontwikkelen tot een belangrijke medestander van Karel de Kale tegen de lokale aristocratie. Het werd benoemd tot markgraaf van Neustrië, ter verdediging tegen Bretagne en de Vikingen.
In 852 werd Robert ook lekenabt van Marmoutier en een jaar later was hij als zendgraaf in Maine, Anjou en Touraine. In 855 werd hij benoemd tot hertog van het gebied tussen de Seine en de Loire. Toen Karel een jaar later zijn zoon Lodewijk de Stamelaar tot onderkoning in Neustrië benoemde, betekende dat een gevoelig verlies voor Robert. Karel compenseerde hem met de graafschappen Autun en Nevers. In 857 verdedigde Robert Autun tegen Lodewijk de Duitser, die probeerde te profiteren van het overlijden van Lotharius I.
Robert gaf in 858 leiding aan een coalitie van edelen uit Bretagne en Neustrië die Lodewijk de Duitser vroeg om koning van West-Francië te worden. Deze poging mislukte echter. Robert wist zich op tijd weer te verzoenen met Karel en werd in 861 beloond met het graafschap Anjou. Toen Lodewijk de Stamelaar in 862 in opstand kwam tegen zijn vader, bleef Robert trouw aan Karel. Hij vocht tegen Lodewijk en tegen zijn bondgenoten: hertog Salomon van Bretagne en Pepijn II van Aquitanië. Zowel Robert als Salomon huurden Vikingen in om hun legers te versterken. Deze gevechten bleven de volgende jaren voortduren. Ook moest Robert in 863 wederom Autun verdedigen tegen Lodewijk de Duitser, die nu probeerde te profiteren van de dood van Karel van Provence.
In 866 kwam Robert in actie tegen een inval van de Vikingen. De Vikingen verschansten zich in een kerk in Brissarthe. Omdat Robert dacht dat er een pauze in de gevechten was, trok hij zijn zware wapenrusting uit. Toen de Vikingen een snelle uitval deden was hij onbeschermd en kon makkelijk worden gedood.
Robert was zoon van Robert van Worms en Waldrada van Orléans.
De naam van de vrouw van Robert is niet overgeleverd uit historische bronnen. Vaak wordt Adelheid (geb. ca. 820) genoemd, dochter van Hugo van Tours en weduwe van Koenraad I van Auxerre (overleden in 862). Aangezien Robert al kinderen had in 862, zou Adelheid zijn tweede vrouw zijn geweest. Adelheid moet in 862 al ouder zijn geweest dan 40, en zou toch nog twee kinderen met Robert hebben gekregen. De Franse geneoloog Christian Settipani heeft vastgesteld dat de bron van de identificatie van Roberts vrouw terug gaat tot het onbetrouwbare twaalfde-eeuwse werk Chronicle of Saint-Benigne de Dijon die een samenvoeging bevat van Alberic of Trois-Fontaines. Het werk Europaische Stammtafeln identificeert Roberts vrouw als ene Agane.
Kinderen uit het mogelijke eerste huwelijk met Agane:
zoon, erft het bezit in Bourgondie (866)
Richildis, getrouwd met Theobald graaf van Tours.
Kinderen die Adelheid als moeder zouden hebben:
Odo (865-898)
Robert (866-931)
Volgens Foundation for Medieval Genealogy zijn deze zoons vermoedelijk voor 862 geboren. Odo en Robert werden allebei koning van West-Francië.
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