Genealogy Ludwig » Edward Southworth (1590-1620)

Persoonlijke gegevens Edward Southworth 

• Hij is geboren in het jaar 1590 in Duke Place, London, England.
• Hij is overleden augustus 1620 in Leyden, Holland, hij was toen 30 jaar oud.

Gezin van Edward Southworth

Hij is getrouwd met Alice Carpenter.

Zij zijn getrouwd op 28 mei 1613 te Leyden, So.Holland, Netherland, hij was toen 23 jaar oud.

Notities over Edward Southworth

*Edward Southworth:
Born about 1585; died in Holland in 1620 or 1621. He married at Leyden, Holland, 28 May 1613, *Alice Carpenter, daughter of Alexander Carpenter. Alice m (2) Gov. William Bradford of the Mayflower. (Married *Rosamond Lister.) 
He was a silk worker in Leyden, one of the Pilgrim exiles who formed Rev. John Rovinson's church. On November 4, 1611, he was groomsman or witness at the marriage of Isaac Allerton with Mary Norris. Again, 30 April 1613 he served in the same capacity for his friend Samuel Fuller at his marriage with Agnes Carpenter, and at this wedding Alice Carpenter was one of the witnesses of her sister. This was Samuel Fuller's second marriage, his first having been to Alice Glascook. At Edward's own wedding in 1613, his brother Thomas Southworth was one of the witnesses. 
Much effort has been given unsuccessfully to find the parentage of Edward Southworth. One theory is that he was Edward the son of Thomas and Rosamond (Lister) Southworth. Thomas was the son of Sir John Southworth, who has a royal line to Edward I, King of England. 

 

Source: Family Search Org. AFN-ID: 94H4-J1S

 

ID: I4010 Name: Edward SOUTHWORTH Sex: M Change Date: 06 JUL 2015 Event: Note Note: A summary of research findings that dispute, or at least question, the link between this Edward and his often presumed parents John and Rosamond Lister Southworth follows: Message Board Post: I am always amazed at how "possible" or "probably" or "believed to be" somehow turn into "IS," in genealogy, which supposedly prides itself on documentation and proof. Although I have posted on this before, I guess the smell of royalty is just too much for some people, and they refuse to let go of a connection which is tenuous at best. So - I am again posting all of the latest research about this supposed Royal connection in the hopes that at least *some* of you will take notice and make the necessary changes and notations to indicate that this is not a proven line. Carry the line IF YOU MUST, but at least note that it is NOT PROVEN, so as not to confuse and mislead others! The following is from my own personal research notes. If you quote, please give credit, both to myself and to the others whom I quote. I have been researching the Southworth line for forty years.: ORIGINS Of Edward Southworth: The link between Thomas & Rosamond (Lister) Southworth with their *possible* son, Edward Southworth, is inadequately supported though it has been called "Probable" for many years. In those many years, no one has found any proof, nor even a good preponderence of evidence that, our Edward was the son of Thomas & Rosamond. I cannot stress enough the word - probable - as there is a break in the line here for which NO DOCUMENTATION has been found which would PROVE the lineage back in time. Although it is carried in RD600, there are those who feel that Gary Boyd Roberts should have dropped the line from this latest book due to the lack of documentation. --"Burke's American Families with British Ancestry" - Repr., Genealogical Pub. Co., Inc. Baltimore; orig. pub. 1939; 1996; ISBN #0-8063-0662-9. 'This work is an offprint of pages 2529-3022 of the 16th edition of Burke's Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry, London, 1939, constituting, in entirety, the innovative American section.' pp.2919, 2920: "Lineage - Edward Southworth, BELIEVED to be descended from the Southworths of Samlesbury Hall, Lancs, joined the Pilgrim Colony in Leyden[sic], Holland, but, through ill-health, was unable to accompany his friends on the Mayflower to Plymouth, Massachusetts; b.ca. 1590; m. at Leyden[sic], Holland, 28 May 1613, Alice Carpenter..." 1 Birth: 1591 Note: Edward was not mentioned in his grandfather Lister's will in 1582 but was in his grandfather Southworth's will in 1595 Event: Note Note: Edward Southworth of London and Zuid-Holland, Married Alice Carpenter 1590 - 1621 , England and Zuid-Holland, Netherlands. Edward Southworth was born circa 1590 in England to Thomas Southworth and Rosamond Lister. His grandfather, Sir John Southworth and his parents, Thomas Southworth and Rosamond Lister were living in London when he was born (Weis, 127-28; Weis in Ancestral Roots . . . ). He died about 1621 at London, county Middlesex; his wife was a widow in July 1623 (Tracy Crocker, MagnaCharta). Edward Southworth of Sturton le Steeple, silk worker. He married Alice Carpenter who was born Dec 1593 of Wrington, Someset, England. They were married May 28, 1613 in Leyden, Holland. He was shown on the rolls of a congregation of Puritans at Leyden, Holland during a period 1610 to 1622. His future wife Alice was a witness at sister Julia Ann's wedding on 23 July 1612. The widowed Alice Carpenter Southworth, went to Plymouth aboard the Anne in July 1623, her two sons following after 1627. (NEHGR, XIV, 1860, 195). Alice thus survived Edward Southworth and died 29 March 1670 in Plymouth, Massachusetts as the wife of Governor William Bradford. Edward Southworth is listed as number seven of seven sons of Thomas Southworth and Rosamond Lister. His brother Thomas Southworth had a residence in Leyden, Holland in 1613 (Melton/Sharp). COMMENTARY BY THIS SUBMITTER: The birth place of Edward Southworth is under challenge. A Magna Charta site (http://www. magnacharta.com, Tracy Crocker 2007) states he was born about 1590 at London, England in county Middlesex. A book by Walter Lee Sheppards (see sources) is probably the source. An earlier Magna Charta application also had him born in London. The family of Edward Southworth on the Melton/Sharp web page asserts, "In 1602, Edward and his brothers, including Thomas, were still in the neighborhood of Samlesbury, all listed as foreign burgesses with their father in the Preston (Lancashire) Guild Roll of that year. They were all mentioned by their grandfather, Sir John Southworth, in his will dated September 17, 1593. Sir John died November 3 the same year." The Tracy Crocker data on Magna Charta.com states Edward Southworth of Sturton Le Steeple was a silk worker (citing a letter from Robert Cushman to Edward Southworth at Heneage House, London, 17 August 1620 (Bradford's history of Plymouth Plntation, Boston, 1901, p. 86). COMMENTARY: Sturton Le Steeple is far east of Liverpool past Sheffield in the middle of England. Edward Southworth as a "foreign burgess" in a guild registered in county Lancaster traveled from north England to London and over to Holland, then back. He would have been more than a "silk worker." A 1982 unabridged dictionary defines a Burgess as a citizen of a town or borough, or (2) in England, a representative or a borough, corporate town, or university in the British parliament. This explain a 1602 connection in both county Lancaster (Lancashire) and London, as the Southworths would have needed living accomodations in London. His ancestral background suggests a person of affluence and influence. Edward Southworth was born circa 1590 at London, county Middlesex, England to Thomas Southworth and Edmund Lister. He died about 1621 as his wife was a widow in July 1623 (Tracy Crocker, MagnaCharta). Edward Southworth of Sturton le Steeple, silk worker. His death is identified as ca. 1621 from a "letter of Robert Cushman to Edward Southworth at Heneage House, London, 17 August, 1620, in Bradford's "History of Plimouth Plantation, Boston, 1901, page 86." Tracy Crocker on Magna Charta.com cites two references: S39 is book Ancestral of Roots of Sixty Colonists . . . ; S110 has Pedigrees of Charlemagne Vol. II by Aileen Lewers Langston (see source lists here). Nine charts to royal lineage. (http://www.magnacharta.com, Tracy Crocker 2007). Charts: Mérovée - Merovingian Dynasty; Charlemagne Descendant Chart; William I - The Conqueror; Alfred the Great; Faulk V - King of Jerusalem; Geoffrey Plantagenet; Edward I - King of England; Lady Godiva; Glyndon H. Crocker, Jr. - Ancestry Chart Edward Southworth was born abt 1590 and died abt 1621. In 1602, Edward and his brothers, including Thomas, . . . were all listed as foreign burgesses with their father in the Preston (Lancashire) Guild Roll of that year. They were all mentioned by by their grandfather, Sir John Southworth, in his will dated September 17, 1593. Sir John died November 3, 1593. Edward Southworth married Alice Carpenter, May 28, 1613 in Leyden, Holland. She was born abt 1590 and died March 26, 1670 in Plymouth, Massachusetts. A record of Edward Southworth shows him at Leyden, Holland on November 13, 1610 as a witness; he married Alice Carpenter at Leyden on May 28, 1613 with his brother, Thomas, as his attendant. The record states he was from England. "In 1622, William and Christopher, brothers of Edward Southworth of Samlesbury, were still on the rolls of the Preston, Lancashire Guild, but Thomas and Edward were omitted, indicating they were dead." William was at the time of his grandfather's death listed at Holcroft, Lancashire (Melton/Sharp). Editorial Board, Webster's Geographical Dictionary, G. & C. Merriam Co., Publishers, Springfield, Mass., 1955, page 336, map; page 592 Lancashire. A port of Lancaster shown on map as north of Cheshire County. Lanca-shire or Lancaster . . . NW England . . . industrial centers Liverpool, Manchester, "watering" places Blackpool, Fleetwood, Morecambe, and Heysham, Southport . . . . History: Region part of Anglo-saxon kingdom of Northumbria and of the Danelaw; . . . an important medieval fief which in late 14th cent. became a county palatine; Lancastrian line of English kings the heirs of John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster . . . NOTE: a Webster's dictionary. Palatine -- adj. having royal privileges; a count or Earl palatine or county; or pertaining to, a palace, palatial; noun, a high official of a royal court, a vassal exercising royal privileges in a province . . . James I acquired rule in 1603 upon the death of his cousin Elizabeth, reigning to his death 1625. He was first and remained James VI, King of Scotland, but did not spend much time in Scotland after succeeding to the throne in England. James suffered chronic illness, wrote poetry, ailments caused facial deformity, could not get along with Parliament so could not raise money for war. He died in bed (unlike Stuart precessors), but England had peace (Murray, 85-89). SOURCES Cornell, Arthur Watson. "The Baronial Order of Magna Charta." Application No. 770, approved January 25, 1958. Edward Southworth born at London England circa 1590, died circa 1621 at Leyden, Holland, marrried at Leyden Holland to Alice Carpenter May 28, 1613. Crocker, Tracy Ashley 2007. " The Baronial Order of Magna Charta." The Baronial Order of Magna Charta, 1998-2006, Crocker ~ Ashley, 2007 Ref: [S39, S1100, http://www.magnacharta.com. Editorial Board. Webster's Geographical Dictionary. G. & C. Merriam Co., Publishers, Springfield, Mass., 1955, page 336, map; page 592 Lancashire. A port of Lancaster shown on map as north of Cheshire County. Lanca-shire or Lancaster . . . NW England . . . industrial centers Liverpool, Manchester, "watering" places Blackpool, Fleetwood, Morecambe, and Heysham, Southport . . . . History: Region part of Anglo-saxon kingdom of Northumbria and of the Danelaw; . . . an important medieval fief which in late 14th cent. became a county palatine; Lancastrian line of English kings the heirs of John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster . . . Heritage Consulting. "Millennium File." The Generations Network, Inc., Provo, UT USA, 2003, (Ancestry.com). Created by the Institute for Family Research. Edward Southworth born 1590, Wrington, Somerset, England; died 1621, London, London County. Hills, Leon Clark. History and Genealogy of the Mayflower Planters. Genealogy Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1977). cited by Melton/Sharp.Langston, Aileen Lewers, James Orton Buck, and Timory Field Beard. Pedigrees of Charlemagne Vol. II. Genealogy Publishing Co., Inc. 1974-78, 1979, http://magnacharta.com. Nine charts to royal ancestry on site of "The Baronial Order of Magna Charta". "Melton/Sharp Ancestry Chart." http://members.cox.net/trm/SouthworthEdward.htm. Edward Southworth was born abt 1590 and died abt 1621. He married Alice Carpenter, May 28, 1613 in Leyden, Holland. A record of Edward Southworth shows him at Leyden, Holland on November 13, 1610 as a witness; he married Alice Carpenter at Leyden on May 28, 1613 with his brother, Thomas, as his attendant. The record states he was from England. Murray, Jane. The Kings and Queens of England. A Tourist Guide. Charles Scribner’s Sons, New York, 1974. See Appendix for index and sources, local snapshots. Reference list page 235 for Elizabeth I, James I. Pp. 85-89.  The New England Historical and Genealogical Register. New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston 1845-present, Vol XIV, 1860, pp. 195-196; XV, 1861, 30. Published Quarterly. Webber, Samuel G., A.B., M.D.. A Genealogy of the Southworths (Southards) Descendants of Constant Southworth with a Sketch of the Family in England. Samuel Usher, The Fort Hill Press, Boston, 1905, page 2, Ancestry.com, http://www.Ancestry.com. Copy of the record at Leyden (not a photocopy). Pages 1-21, 417, 419-420, 423-426 Weis, Frederick Lewis; Walter Lee Sheppard. Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists ~ Who Came to New England between 1623 and 1650. Genealogy Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1976, fifth edition, http://magnacharta.com. Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, and Robert the Strong.Wheeler, W. A. Alden-Shedd Families - Part II. ci ted by Melton/Sharp web sit. BIRTH: Crocker, Tracy Ashley 2007. "The Baronial Order of Magna Charta." The Baronial Order of Magna Charta, 1998-2006, Tracy Crocker, 2007 Ref [S39], http://www.magnacharta.com. S39 has book Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists . . . see source list here. Edward Southworth was born circa 1590 at London, county Middlesex, England. Weis, Frederick Lewis; Walter Lee Sheppard. Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists ~ Who Came to New England between 1623 and 1650. Genealogy Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1976, fifth edition. Lineage of Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, and Robert the Strong. Edward Southworth was born circa 1590 at London, county Middlesex, England, the son of Thomas Southworth and Rosamund Lister.  MARRIAGE EVENT: Cornell, Arthur Watson. "The Baronial Order of Magna Charta", Application No. 770, approved January 25, 1958. Edward Southworth married Alice Carpenter at Leyden, Holland on May 28, 1613. Crocker, Tracy Ashley 2007. The Baronial Order of Magna Charta, The Baronial Order of Magna Charta, 1998-2006, Tracy Crocker, 2007 (S39], http://www.magnacharta.com. Quoting Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists . . . . Edward Southworth married Alice Carpenter on 28 May 1613 at Leyden, Holland. Webber, Samuel G., A.B., M.D. A Genealogy of the Southworths (Southards) Descendants of Constant Southworth with a Sketch of the Family in England. Samuel Usher, The Fort Hill Press, Boston, 1905, page 2, Ancestry.com, http://www.Ancestry.com. Copy of the record at Leyden (not a photocopy). Weis, Frederick Lewis; Walter Lee Sheppard. Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists ~ Who Came to New England between 1623 and 1650. Genealogy Publishing Co., Inc., Baltimore, 1976, fifth edition. Edward Southworth married Alice Carpenter on 28 May 1613 at Leyden, Holland. 2 Immigration: ABT 1609 Note: To Leyden from England with Pilgrim Separatist movement Death: ABT 1621 in London, England Note: Deborah Southworth Sweet provides this analysis: "Message Board Post: DATE OF DEATH for Edward Southworth of London & Leiden: Edward's dod appears in many people's family trees, variously as 1620, 1621, bef. 1622, and even, ridiculously, 1623. Some have his place of death as Leiden, Holland, however this cannot be the case as per Cushman's letter of Aug. 1620 to his friend Edward Southworth, living at Heneage House, Duke Place, LONDON. In fact, Edward was most likely dead before the Fortune set sail for Plymouth on August 9, 1621. How else would have Bradford known of Alice's widowhood in time to send a letter to her by way of the ONLY POSSIBLE ship, and then have HER come to Plymouth on again, the ONLY POSSIBLE ship? The Fortune arrived at Plymouth Nov. 9, 1621, unloading 35 new colonists, a few supplies, and most importantly of all, telling the news of London, including the death of Edward Southworth. There is no doubt that Bradford had to have sent a letter TO Alice, back on the Fortune when the Fortune made her return voyage to England Dec. 3, 1621, for Alice arrived in Plymouth with the *next* set of ships, aboard the Anne (arr. w/the Little James) in 1623. As these were the ONLY ships of record to have gone between England and the Plymouth Colony, the timeline MUST be that Edward Southworth died, sometime between Robert Cushman's Aug. 17, 1620 letter, and the departure of the 'Fortune' on Aug. 9, 1621. I therefore place Edward Southworth's date of death as: BETWEEN 8/17/1620 and 8/9/1621, *probably* in London, though the place is NOT proven. I carry the place of death as "Heneage House" as this the last place of record he is known to be at. Heneage House was a hotbed of Dissenter's activity. It may be that Edward was living there, for by this time it had become a boarding house, and William Bradford was also living in the same *area* though not at Heneage. It could also have simply been the place where he picked up his mail, and not where he was living." 1 Event: Note Note: This birthdate is questionable because Edward is shown as the youngest son of Thomas and Rosamond in Sir John's will dated 1595 -- unless the birth order in Sir John's will is reversed. In that case, Edward would be the oldest. The source for this information is ambiguous. Webber refers to Edward as the seventh son with five younger brothers. 3 Event: ReschNote Note: No proof has yet been found that this Edward was the son of Thomas and Rosamond Lister Southworth. Therefore, I have detached Edward from these parents and their respective lineages. This matter can be resolved if at least one and preferably two confirmed male descendants of Thomas and Rosamond (or of Thomas's male line ancestors) come forward to be Y-DNA tested. (See https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/southworth-southard/about/background.)    Marriage 1 Alice* CARPENTER b: ABT 1590 Married: 04 MAY 1613 Children  Constant SOUTHWORTH b: 1614 in Leyden, Holland  Thomas SOUTHWORTH b: ABT 1615 Sources: Title: Ancestry Web Site Abbrev: Ancestry.com Page: Rootsweb: Title: Ancestry Web Site Abbrev: Ancestry.com Page: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/23053672/recent?msg=rsvp Title: A Genealogy of the Southworths (Southards) Abbrev: Constant Southworth Genealogy Author: Samuel G. Webber Publication: The Fort Hill Press, Boston, MA, 1905 Page: p. 423

 

Edward SOUTHWORTH 

Birthabt 1590, London, England591, p 5

Death1620, London, England591, p 4,589, p 2; bef 1620 Age: 30

Ancestral File #840P-P2702

Occupationsilk worker701, p 88

FatherThomas SOUTHWORTH (~1548-1616)

MotherRosamond LISTER

Individual Notes

• The identity of Edward Southworth of Leyden is shown to be the same as Edward Southworth of Samlesbury, the son of Thomas and Rosamond (Lister) Southworth.591, pp 39-40

Marriage28 May 1613, Leiden, Holland703, p 355,701, p 88; year & place only,783, p 1,591, p 2

ChildrenConstant (1614-1679)

 Thomas (1616-1669)

 

Source: 591. The Ancestry of Ensign Constant and Captain Thomas Southworth of Plymouth and Duxbury, Massachusetts, by Frederick Lewis Weis, Th. D., F.A.S.G., Dublin, New Hampshire, 1958, Southworth (JPEG).
• 18 scanned pages
Source 111
Files (3): 111.Title, 111.01, 111.02.03

Heeft u aanvullingen, correcties of vragen met betrekking tot Edward Southworth?
De auteur van deze publicatie hoort het graag van u!