Genealogy Richard Remmé, The Hague, Netherlands » Hervé IV de Léon (> 1255-1304)

Persoonlijke gegevens Hervé IV de Léon 

• Alternatieve naam: le dissipateur
• Hij is geboren na 1255.
• Beroepen:
• Seigneur.
• chevalier, sgr de Chateauneuf, 12° vte de Léon.
• (Property) : Châteauneuf.
• Hij is overleden op 28 april 1304.
• Een kind van Hervé III de Léon en Marguerite de Châteauneuf
• Deze gegevens zijn voor het laatst bijgewerkt op 4 december 2022.

Gezin van Hervé IV de Léon

(1) Hij is getrouwd met Mahaut de Poissy.

Zij zijn getrouwd in het jaar 1281.

s:Auréjac

Kind(eren):

1. Isabelle de Léon  
2. Jeanne de Léon  ± 1285-????
3. Hervé V de Léon  ± 1225-1281 

(2) Hij is getrouwd met Catherine de Laval.

Zij zijn getrouwd op 19 mei 1265.

s:ds14.137; Bauche

Kind(eren):

1. Constance (Anne) de Léon  ????-> 1276 

Notities over Hervé IV de Léon

veuf de Catherine de Laval, vte de Léon, sgr de Fleury, Noyon et Radepont 68>

Profession : Seigneur de Châteauneuf.

Subject: Ancestry of Herve IV (V) de Leon
From: jean bunot ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX))
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval

Since we have been discussing the Leon family in the Le Bouteiller
thread, allow me to post the classic and revised ancestry of vicomte
Herve IV (V) de Leon, spouse of Mahaut de Poissy.

Traditional ancestry :

1. Herve IV, vicomte de Leon, seigneur en partie de
Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais et de Senonches (+ 1304), m. 1280, Mahaut de
Poissy, dame de Noyon-sur-Andelle, de Radepont, d'Hacqueville, de
Pont-Saint-Pierre, de Fontaine-sous-Jouy

2. Herve III, vicomte de Leon (1263)

3. m. c. 1260/63, Ne... de Chateauneuf, dame en partie de
Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais et de Senonches (traditionaly nothing more is
known of her but the fact that she was heiress -in part- of those
seigneuries which her son eventually exchanged with the king for
revenues on Pont-Saint-Pierre normally owned to the crown)

4. Herve II, vicomte de Leon (+ very young on the way back from
crusade 1218)

5. m. before 1218, Anne d'Hennebont, dame de Guemene-Heboe/Kemenet et
de Trefaven-sur-le-Scorf, daughter Henri

8. Herve I, younger son, was apanaged under the title of vicomte de
Leon with the seigneuries or castles de Landerneau, de Joyeuse-Garde,
de Plougastel-Daoulas, de Daoudour, de Landivisiau, de Coetmeur, de
Penze, de Crozon and Bourgneuf-en-Poher, controling more than 65
parishes, 10 mains castles and the prestigious Daoulas abbaye, being
the most powerfull landowner in Vannetais (+ 1208)

9. ép. c. 1180, Marguerite de Rohan, sometimes said to be Alain III de
Rohan's sister instead of daughter, but by naming her own daughter
Constance (m . Payen de Malestroit) she maid very clear for us her
affiliation with the ducal house and the right set of parents. Further
more, the chronology would make it difficult for her to be a daughter
of Alain II who died soon after 1268.

16. Guyomarc'h VI, comte de Leon, founder in 1173 of Daoulas abbaye (+
1179)

17. m. 1150, Nobilis (de Penthievre-Treguier ?)

18. Alain III, vicomte de Rohan (+ 1195)

19. m. 1160/65, Constance de Bretagne (+ 1184)
--------------------
New ascending lineage for Herve de Leon according to Patrice Birker in
French genealogical periodic Helraldique et Genealogie (1998)

1. Herve V, vicomte de Leon, seigneur en partie de
Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais et de Senonches (+ 1304), m. 1280, Mahaut de
Poissy, dame de Noyon-sur-Andelle, de Radepont, d'Hacqueville, de
Pont-Saint-Pierre, de Fontaine-sous-Jouy

2. Herve IV, vicomte de Leon, seigneur en partie de
Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais et de Senonches

3. m. c. 1255, Jeanne de Rohan

4. Herve III, vicomte de Leon (+ 1241)

5. m. Ne..., dame de Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais

6. Alain VI, vicomte de Rohan

7. m. Isabeau de Leon (senior branch)

8. Herve II, vicomte de Leon (+ crusade 1218)

9. m. (2) c. 1205, Ne... du Faou, sister of Morvan, vicomte du Faou,
and possibly daughter of Soudan, vicomte du Faou (m. (1) Ne..., dame
de Guemene-Heboe (daughter Henri d'Hennebont)

10. Hugues, seigneur de Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais et de Senonches

11. m. Eleonore de Dreux

16. Herve I, vicomte de Leon (+ 1208), same from here

17. m. c. 1180, Marguerite de Rohan, same from here

This version his basically the same with the adjonction of an extra
generation : vicomte Herve IV married to Jeanne de Rohan. Do we have
any evidence for that Jeanne within the family history of the vicomtes
de Rohan ? Can anybody prove or disprove that marriage ? Personaly I
am more confortable with the classical version of the ascending
lineage of Herve de Leon, although the new theory appears more sound
chronologically speaking, solving the problem of the longer than usual
time frame between the marriages of Herve II and Herve IV (V), which
could on the other hand be explained by the accepted fact that Herve
II died very young on the way back from crusade (1218). What do you
think ?
Jean Bunot

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Subject: Re: Ancestry of Herve IV (V) de Leon
From: Roger LeBlanc ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX))
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval

Thank you Jean for rescuing me. The Dreux descent I posted did come in
part from the Heraldique et Genealogie article which someone had emailed
me. I've recently lost a lot of information from my computer, though I'm
hoping I had made a copy of it. In any case I gave it more credence than
the on-line sources, particularly since it linked Catherine de Baillon's
ancestors to these people. I was not aware of the traditional lineage,
but from your posting, I've taken another look at the chronology for the
two lines.

The new lineage:

Hervé I de Léon c 1150-1208 m Marguerite de Rohan
Hervé II de Léon c 1175-1218
Hervé III de Léon c 1200-1241 m c 1225 Ne de Chateauneuf c 1205?-
Hervé IV de Léon c 1225-   m Jeanne de Rohan
Hervé V de Léon c 1255-1304 m Mahaut de Poissy

Assuming the years of birth for the I and V Herve are nearly accurate,
in the new lineage the intervening generations would all have been
roughly 25 years apart. It seems to me the interval for four successive
generations should not be so small.
I've noted that in several databases, the wives of Herve IV and V are
reversed, which I don't see how it could be possible. Perhaps Jeanne de
Rohan was a second wife to the Herve born circa 1255?

According to the traditional line, the likely chronology for it would
look like the following, which appears to allow more credible gaps
between the generations. The Chateauneuf bride would have to have been
younger, but still might not affect her parentage. The marriage though
would have to have taken place much later than in the above lineage.

Hervé I de Léon c 1150-1208 m c 1180 Marguerite de Rohan
Hervé II de Léon c 1185-1218
Hervé III de Léon c 1215-     m c 1250 Ne de Chateauneuf c 1225?-
Hervé IV de Léon c 1255-1304 m 1280 Mahaut de Poissy

I mean to take a look seperately at the Marguerite de Rohan question.
I'm not sure I follow you on the chronology concern mentioned in your
posting.

Roger LeBlanc

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