Arbre généalogique Homs » Charles Constantine de Vienne (± 910-962)

Données personnelles Charles Constantine de Vienne 


Famille de Charles Constantine de Vienne

Il avait une relation avec Thietburge de Sens.


Enfant(s):

  1. Richard de Vienne  ± 922-± 962 


Notes par Charles Constantine de Vienne

Name Suffix: Count Of Vienne
Name Suffix: Count Of Vienne
Karl Konstantin (Charles-Constantin) var greve av Vienne allerede 25.12.927.
Da han i et dokument 03.06.923 allerede opptrer som ?ambasciator? og i 951
kalles ?grandaevus?, må han være født ikke lenge etter 900. Han kalles uekte sønn til keiser
Ludvig III av Italia. Hans annet fornavn, Konstantin, kan vel kun forklares ved at hans mor var
av burgundisk-provencialsk slekt, der dette navn ofte forekommer. Konrad av Burgund kaller
han ?consanguineus?, men dette beviser ikke at hans mor tilhørte Welferhuset, slektskapet
kunne bestå på annen måte.
[s2.FTW]

[Brøderbund WFT Vol. 2, Ed. 1, Tree #1241, Date of Import: May 8, 1997]

!COUNT OF VIENNE[Brøderbund WFT Vol. 2, Ed. 1, Tree #1241, Date of Import: May 8, 1997]

!COUNT OF VIENNE
The first Count of Savoy, Humbert White Hands, is sometimes said to be the grandson of Charles Constantine, Count of Vienne, who is said to be the son of the Emperor and King of Lower Burgundy Louis III, who is sometimes said to have married the daughter Anna of the Emperor Leo VI of Romania. On the other hand, Louis III is also said to have had no children, whether his wife was supposed to be Anna or Ediga of England. The New Cambridge Medieval History, Volume III, c.900-c.1024 [Timothy Reuter, editor, Cambridge, 1999] now says that Louis did marry Anna, and that Charles Constantine was their son, while Louis had another son, Rudolf, by a second wife, Adelaide [p.335]. However, Charles Constantine's sons are said to be "Richard and Hubert" and their connection to the Counts of Savoy, or Arles, or Vienne, to be unknown. (http://www.friesian.com/lorraine.htm)

Charles-Constantine (d.962) was the count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, king of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor. He was a sixth generation descendant of Charlemagne.

Some scholars allege that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, daughter of Leo VI the Wise and his second wife Zoe Zaoutzaina. However Louis's marriage to this princess is much disputed and is rather unlikely. Christian Settipani postulates that his name refers to the founders of the empires governed by his father and maternal grandfather, i.e., to Charlemagne and Constantine the Great.

When Louis died in 929, Hugh of Arles, who was already king of Italy, took over Provence and gave it, in 933, to King Rudolf II of Burgundy. Charles-Constantine relinquished his claim to the throne without much argument and this has led many to believe he was, in fact, a bastard. He was compensated with the county of the Viennois, which he ruled until his death in 962.

He was married to Thiberge de Troyes. Their daughter Constance of Arles was wife to Boso II of Provence and ancestor of the Counts of Provence. (Wikipedia)

Charles Constantine is the documented son of Louis the Blind. He has traditionally been called illegitimate, but this was almost solely due to his failure to inherit his father's titles, ignoring the fact that his father was not in a position to pass anything to his son, having lost all to his enemies (and friends). It is his name that caused a reevaluation of this maternity. While the name Charles harkens back to his (by this time distant) ancestor, Charlemagne, but Constantine is a novelty. While one could (and people have) derive the use of this name to the late - Carolingian classicism which caused Hugh Count of Maine to use the name David, the alternative solution is really the simplest - that this name, while having a link to antiquity, relates more immediately to Emperor Constantine, son of Leo IV, and uncle of the child(ren) of Louis and Anna - that Charles Constantine was their legitimate son. (http://www.renderplus.com/hartgen/htm/de-province.htm)

After Louis the Blind died in 928, Raoul traveled to Vienne and accepted the homage of his cousin Charles Constantine, son of Louis, as count. (http://www.san.beck.org/AB17-FeudalEurope.html)

[
Charles-Constantine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Charles-Constantine (d.962) was the count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, king of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor. Some scholars allege that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, illegitimate daughter of the Leo the Wise, although Louis's marriage to this princess is much disputed and is rather unlikely. Christian Settipani postulates that his name refers to the founders of the empires governed by his father and grandfather, i.e., to Charlemagne and Constantine the Great.

When Louis died in 929, Hugh of Arles, who was already king of Italy, took over Provence and gave it, in 933, to King Rudolf II of Burgundy. Charles-Constantine relinquished his claim to the throne without much argument and this has led many to believe he was, in fact, a bastard. He was compensated with the county of the Viennois, which he ruled until his death in 962.
[edit]

Sources

* Dictionnaire de Biographie Française. Roman d'Amat and R. Limousin-Lamothe (ed). Paris, 1967.
More on Charles: Brandenburg; C. W. Previté-Orton, "Charles Constantine of Vienne", English Historical review (1914), Vo. 29, pp. 703-6).
[3430] WSHNGT.ASC file (Geo Washington Ahnentafel) # 278982986 = 69968202
Rootsweb Feldman
URL: http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:3044567&id=I09636
# ID: I09636
# Name: Karl Konstantin Count Of VIENNE 1 2 3 4 5
# Sex: M
# Birth: 901 1 2 3 4 5
# Death: 962 1 2 3 4 5
# Change Date: 15 JAN 2004 5
# Change Date: 2 NOV 2001 2 3 4 5
# Note:

[Joanne's Tree.1 GED.GED]

2 SOUR S332582
3 DATA
4 TEXT Date of Import: 14 Jan 2004

OCCU Count de Belley ...
SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart
PAGE 14
QUAY 1
SOUR HAWKINS.GED says Jan-962
COMYNI.GED (Compuserve) says ABT 963
Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 14 says AFT Jan 962
Count of Vienne - COMYNI.GED (Compuserve); COMYNJ.TAF (Compuserve) gives
mother as AEdgifu while COMYNI.GED (Compuserve) gives mother as Edgiva - NLP;
Count of Vienne - Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 236; Count of
Vienne - HAWKINS.GED; HAWKINS.GED gives mother as Anna of Byzantium - NPH

Father: Louis III THE , King Of Italy Blind' b: 883
Mother: Anna PORPHYROGENETIA b: 886 in Constantinople, Turkey

Father: Louis III The BLIND' , King Of Italy b: 883
Mother: Anna PORPHYROGENETIA b: 886 in Constantinople, Turkey

Marriage 1 Teutberge DE TROYES b: ABT 900

Children

1. Has Children Richard DE VIENNE b: ABT 920
2. Has Children Constance of PROVENCE b: 924

Sources:

1. Title: daveanthes.FTW
Note: ABBR daveanthes.FTW
Note: Source Media Type: Other
Repository:
Call Number:
Media: Book
Text: Date of Import: 14 Jan 2004
2. Title: daveanthes.FTW
Note: ABBR daveanthes.FTW
Note: Source Media Type: Other
Repository:
Call Number:
Media: Book
Text: Date of Import: Jan 13, 2004
3. Title: Spare.FTW
Repository:
Call Number:
Media: Other
Text: Date of Import: Jan 18, 2004
4. Title: Spare.FTW
Repository:
Call Number:
Media: Other
Text: Date of Import: 21 Jan 2004
5. Title: Joanne's Tree.1 GED.GED
Repository:
Call Number:
Media: Other
Text: Date of Import: Feb 6, 2004
#Générale##Générale#Controversé : Pierre Riché le fait fils de la secondeépouse de sonpère, Adélaïde de Bourgogne. Nous suivons iciles notes historiques de NicoleFabre "Les Jardins duFraxinet" (1997).
Profession : Roi de Provence.
{geni:occupation} Comte de Vienne & Bellay, Roi de Provence 926/930, ambassadeur 923
{geni:about_me} '''Charles''' (perhaps "Constantine") (c903-c926), Count of Vienne and Bellay (943). The debate about his mother's identity is quite heated. His supposed name or nickname Constantine, unusual in the west, supports the theory, accepted by Septimani, that she was the Byzantine princess [http://www.geni.com/people/Anna-Myakes-Princess-of-the-Byzantine-Empire/6000000001143110607 Anna Myakes]. However, the evidence that he used the name in his lifetime is too weak to be reliable. See [http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval/browse_thread/thread/4251adad386f1842/d9b7b08d1b66aa66?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=charles+constantine#d9b7b08d1b66aa66 Charles Constantine, Count of Vienne: identity of his mother] at soc.genealogy.medieval.''

--------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Constantine_of_Vienne

--------------------

Charles-Constantine (died 962) was the count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, king of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor.

He was married to Thiberge de Troyes. It has been speculated that Constance, wife to Boso II of Provence and ancestor of the Counts of Provence, was their daughter.

Some modern genealogical scholars speculated that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, daughter of Leo VI the Wise and his second wife Zoe Zaoutzaina.

Sources

* Dictionnaire de Biographie Française. Roman d'Amat and R. Limousin-Lamothe (ed). Paris, 1967.

--------------------

The family of Charles-Constantin de PROVENCE and ..
[128947] PROVENCE (de), Charles-Constantin (Louis III .. & Anna de MACÉDOINE [128946]), comte de Vienne, born about 901
* married about 920, from France ? (France)
.., .. (..)
1) Constance, born about 925, married about 945 Boso de PROVENCE

Bibliographie : Histoire de la maison royale de France (Père Anselme); Essai sur l'histoire des comtes souverains de Provence

http://www.francogene.com/quebec--genealogy/128/128947.php

--------------------

Karl Konstantin (* wohl 901, † nach Januar 962) 928/930 Graf von Vienne, ? Teutberga von Troyes († nach 960) Tochter des Grafen Warnarius und Teutberga von Arles
Richard († nach Januar 962)
Robert († wohl nach Mai 976)
Konstanze (Constance) ? Boso II. († 965/967) 935 Graf von Avignon, 949 Graf von Arles (Haus Provence)
--------------------

Charles Constantine of Vienne
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Charles-Constantine)

Charles-Constantine (d. 962) was the count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, king of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor.

About his name, he was never called "Charles Constantine". Rather Flodoard, copied later by Richar, calls him "Constantinus". We know that his proper name was "Carolus" (Charles) from a diploma of his father, and from his own charters. Modern scholars have typically called him Charles Constantine, but this was not a name used during his lifetime.

Some modern genealogical scholars speculated that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, daughter of Leo VI the Wise and his second wife Zoe Zaoutzaina. However Louis's marriage to this princess is much disputed and is rather unlikely. Christian Settipani postulates that his name refers to the founders of the empires governed by his father and maternal grandfather, i.e., to Charlemagne and Constantine the Great.

Regarding his birthyear, or age, we have few datapoints. He was Count of Vienne and acting as an adult by (but not in) December 927. This evidences that his father must have had a prior union. Some speculation would place him born in 901/3 but this is just a force-fit to allow Anna to be his mother and his father's wife.

When Charles' father Louis died in 929, Hugh of Arles, who was already king of Italy, took over Provence and gave it, in 933, to King Rudolf II of Burgundy. Charles-Constantine for whatever reason, could not inherit his father's right to the imperial throne or his right to rule Provence. This has led many to believe he was, in fact, a bastard. He did however rule the county of the Viennois, until his death in 962.

He was married to Thiberge de Troyes. Their daughter Constance of Vienne was wife to Boso II of Provence and ancestor of the Counts of Provence.
[edit]Sources

Dictionnaire de Biographie Française. Roman d'Amat and R. Limousin-Lamothe (ed). Paris, 1967.

--------------------

Charles-Constantine (died 962) was the count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, king of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor.

About his name, he was never called "Charles Constantine". Rather Flodoard, copied later by Richar, calls him "Constantinus". We know that his proper name was "Carolus" (Charles) from a diploma of his father, and from his own charters. Modern scholars have typically called him Charles Constantine, but this was not a name used during his lifetime.

Some modern genealogical scholars speculated that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, daughter of Leo VI the Wise and his second wife Zoe Zaoutzaina. However Louis's marriage to this princess is much disputed and is rather unlikely. Christian Settipani postulates that his name refers to the founders of the empires governed by his father and maternal grandfather, i.e., to Charlemagne and Constantine the Great.

Regarding his birthyear, or age, we have few datapoints. He was Count of Vienne and acting as an adult by (but not in) December 927. This evidences that his father must have had a prior union. Some speculation would place him born in 901/3 but this is just a force-fit to allow Anna to be his mother and his father's wife.

When Charles' father Louis died in 929, Hugh of Arles, who was already king of Italy, took over Provence and gave it, in 933, to King Rudolf II of Burgundy. Charles-Constantine for whatever reason, could not inherit his father's right to the imperial throne or his right to rule Provence. This has led many to believe he was, in fact, a bastard. He did however rule the county of the Viennois, until his death in 962.

He was married to Thiberge de Troyes. It has been speculated that Constance, wife to Boso II of Provence and ancestor of the Counts of Provence, was their daughter.
[edit] Sources

* Dictionnaire de Biographie Française. Roman d'Amat and R. Limousin-Lamothe (ed). Paris, 1967.

--------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Constantine_of_Vienne

Charles Constantine of Vienne

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to:navigation, search

Charles-Constantine (died 962) was the Count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, King of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor.

[edit] Name and maternity

About his name, he was never called "Charles Constantine". Rather Flodoard, copied later by Richar, calls him "Constantinus". We know that his proper name was "Carolus" (Charles) from a diploma of his father, and from his own charters. Modern scholars have typically called him Charles Constantine, but this was not a name used during his lifetime.

Some modern genealogical scholars speculated that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, daughter of Leo VI the Wise and his second wife Zoe Zaoutzaina. However, his father's marriage to this princess is much disputed and rather unlikely. Christian Settipani postulates that his name refers to the founders of the empires governed by his father and maternal grandfather, i.e., to Charlemagne and Constantine the Great.

Regarding his birthyear, or age, we have few datapoints. He was Count of Vienne and acting as an adult by (but not in) December 927. This evidences that his father must have had a prior union. Some speculation would place him born in 901/3 but this is just a force-fit to allow Anna to be his mother and his father's wife.

[edit] Life

When Charles' father Louis died in 929, Hugh of Arles, who was already king of Italy, took over Provence and gave it, in 933, to King Rudolf II of Burgundy. Charles-Constantine for whatever reason, could not inherit his father's right to the imperial throne or his right to rule Provence. This has led many to believe he was, in fact, a bastard. He did however rule the county of the Viennois, until his death in 962.

He was married to Thiberge de Troyes. It has been speculated that Constance, wife to Boso II of Provence and grandmother of Queen Constance of Arles, was their daughter. Through her, Charles Constantine would be an ancestor of the Capetian kings of France and the Norman and Plantagenet kings of England (through Queen Constance's daughter Adela Capet, and Adela's daughter Queen Matilda of Flanders, who married William the Conqueror).

[edit] Sources

* Dictionnaire de Biographie Française. Roman d'Amat and R. Limousin-Lamothe (ed). Paris, 1967.

This page was last modified on 18 February 2010 at 08:40

--------------------
Only modern scholars refer to him as 'Charles Constantine' (best way to find info on him). He was actually refered to as 'Flodard'. His proper name was 'Carolus' (Charles).
--------------------
Charles-Constantine (died 962) was the count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, king of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor.

About his name, he was never called "Charles Constantine". Rather Flodoard, copied later by Richar, calls him "Constantinus". We know that his proper name was "Carolus" (Charles) from a diploma of his father, and from his own charters. Modern scholars have typically called him Charles Constantine, but this was not a name used during his lifetime.

Some modern genealogical scholars speculated that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, daughter of Leo VI the Wise and his second wife Zoe Zaoutzaina. However Louis's marriage to this princess is much disputed and is rather unlikely. Christian Settipani postulates that his name refers to the founders of the empires governed by his father and maternal grandfather, i.e., to Charlemagne and Constantine the Great.

Regarding his birthyear, or age, we have few datapoints. He was Count of Vienne and acting as an adult by (but not in) December 927. This evidences that his father must have had a prior union. Some speculation would place him born in 901/3 but this is just a force-fit to allow Anna to be his mother and his father's wife.

When Charles' father Louis died in 929, Hugh of Arles, who was already king of Italy, took over Provence and gave it, in 933, to King Rudolf II of Burgundy. Charles-Constantine for whatever reason, could not inherit his father's right to the imperial throne or his right to rule Provence. This has led many to believe he was, in fact, a bastard. He did however rule the county of the Viennois, until his death in 962.

He was married to Thiberge de Troyes. It has been speculated that Constance, wife to Boso II of Provence and ancestor of the Counts of Provence, was their daughter.
Had two sons with Teutberga. They both died young.
443591428. Grev Karl Konstatin LUDVIGSON av Vienne(16265) was born after 900.(16266) He was a Greve before 25 Dec 927 in Vienne.(16267) He died after 960.(16268) Da hani et dokument av 3.6.923 allerede opptrer som "ambasciator" og i 951 kalles "grandaevus", må han være født ikke lenge etter 900. hankalles uekte sønn av Ludvik. han annet fornavn Konstantin kan vel også kun forklares ved at hans mor var av burgundisk-provencialsk slekt, da dette navn her forekommer. Konrad av Brugund kaller ham "consanguineus", men dette beviser ikke at hans mor tilhørte Welferhuset, da slektskapet kunne bestå på annen måte.
Source: Héraldique et Généalogie 2000 p 271
Source MANTEYER BUSQUET et SETTIPANI
Charles - Charles Constantine is the documented son of Louis the Blind. He has traditionally been called illegitimate, but this was almost solely due to his failure to inherit his father's titles, ignoring the fact that his father was not in a position to pass anything to his son, having lost all to his enemies (and friends). It is his name that caused a reevaluation of this maternity. While the name Charles harkens back to his (by this time distant) ancestor, Charlemagne, but Constantine is a novelty. While one could (and people have) derive the use of this name to the late - Carolingian classicism which caused Hugh Count of Maine to use the name David, the alternative solution is really the simplest - that this name, while having a link to antiquity, relates more immediately to Emperor Constantine, son of Leo IV, and uncle of the child(ren) of Louis and Anna - that Charles Constantine was their legitimate son.
Charles-Constantine (d.962) was the count of Vienne, son of Louis the Blind, king of Provence and Holy Roman Emperor.
Some scholars allege that his mother was Anna of Constantinople, daughter of Leo VI the Wise and his second wife Zoe Zaoutzaina. However Louis's marriage to this princess is much disputed and is rather unlikely. Christian Settipani postulates that his name refers to the founders of the empires governed by his father and maternal grandfather, i.e., to Charlemagne and Constantine the Great.
When Louis died in 929, Hugh of Arles, who was already king of Italy, took over Provence and gave it, in 933, to King Rudolf II of Burgundy. Charles-Constantine relinquished his claim to the throne without much argument and this has led many to believe he was, in fact, a bastard. He was compensated with the county of the Viennois, which he ruled until his death in 962.
He was married to Thiberge de Troyes. Their daughter Constance of Vienne was wife to Boso II of Provence and ancestor of the Counts of Provence.
Karel Konstantijn van Vienne, geb. 901*, ovl. na jan 962, ref. nr. 29.03.2004 ES II-189 /III.1-Anh.7,19 Graaf van Vienne 926/30. Hij trouwde met Teutberga van Troyes.
COUNT OF VIENNE
Source: Héraldique et Généalogie 2000 p 271
Source MANTEYER BUSQUET et SETTIPANI
Comte de Vienne 926-962
Source Sebastien AVY



Charles Constantine is the documented son of Louis the Blind. He has traditionallybeen called illegitimate, but this was almost solely due to his failure to inherit his father's titles, ignoring thefact that his father was not in a position to pass anything to his son, having lost all to his enemies (and friends).It is his name that caused a reevaluation of this maternity. While the name Charles harkens back to his (by this timedistant) ancestor, Charlemagne, but Constantine is a novelty. While one could (and people have) derive the use of thisname to the late - Carolingian classicism which caused Hugh Count of Maine to use the name David, the alternativesolution is really the simplest - that this name, while having a link to antiquity, relates more immediately toEmperor Constantine, son of Leo IV, and uncle of the child(ren) of Louis and Anna - that Charles Constantine was theirlegitimate son.
For more information see the Our Folk - Hart family Web Site


from "Our Folk" by Albert D Hart, Jr.

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