Elle est mariée avec Jan van Egmond.
Ils se sont mariés
Enfant(s):
Zij werd op 29 nov. 1360 getocht door haar man.
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Fairfax/Colepepper and a Dutch girl from Zeeland
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" bgColor=#b71c0cPh.J. van DaelFeb 21 1998, 12:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Ph.J. van Dael)
Date: 1998/02/21
Subject: Fairfax/Colepepper and a Dutch girl from Zeeland
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By mistake I have deleted a message of the list about Fairfaix/Colepper. What I recall is that the sender was curious about any links to English royalty. (Why is it that Americans are so deperate to prove their ancestry from nobility and kings, etc.?) I cannot provide English royals, but Thomas Colepepper married a Dutch girl, and it is probable that she is a descendant from Charlemagne. In “Gens Nostra” (1990) I found the following lineage from Baldwin V of Flanders to the said Dutch girl (from Balwin their are lines to Charlemagne). Before spending a lot of time and not knowing wether it is important or not for the sender I didn’t bother translating it. If it is worth it I can go on. Just let me know. 1. Boudewijn V van Vlaanderen, geb. ca. 1013, komt na zijn huwelijk in opstand tegen zijn vader maar wordt door hertog Robert van Normandië versla-gen en moet zich verzoenen Oudenaarde 1030; graaf van Vlaanderen 1035; neemt actief deel aan de algemene opstand van Neder-Lotharingen tegen keizer Hen-drik 111 1044 en steekt de rijksburcht van Nijmegen in brand, maar wordt tot onderwerping gedwongen 1049150; door keizerin-weduwe Agnes bevestigd in het leen Zeeland bewesten Schelde 1056, regent (‘procurator et bajulus’ ) van Frankrijk 1060-67, is nog aanwezig bij de inwijding van de Sint-Baafs te Gent 9-5-1067, overl. ald. 1-9-1067, begr. ald. (Sint-Pieter), naar de plaats waar hij bij voorkeur resideerde bijgenaamd ‘van Rijsel’ (‘de Lille’, ‘Insul anus’), tr. Parijs begin 1028 Adelheid (Aelis) van Frankrijk, geb. ca. 1009 of ca. 1019, gravin van Coutance, sticht het klooster Mesen (Messines) bij Ieper, overl. Mesen 8-1-1079, begr. ald., wellicht weduwe van Richard 111 van Normandië (overl. 6-8-1027), dr. va n Robert 11 ‘de Vrome’ (‘le Pieux’) koning van Frankrijk en diens derde ge malin Constante van Provence. 2. Boudewijn I/VI van Vlaanderen, geb. ca. 1030 (doch mogelijk wat la-ter), door keizerin-weduwe Agnes beleend met Henegouwen Keulen 1056 (Bou-dewijn 1); door het overlijden van zijn vader tevens graaf van Vlaanderen 1067 (Boudewijn VI); overl. 17-7-1070, begr. in de door hem herstelde abdij Hasnon, tr. 1051 Richilde ‘van Henegouwen’, (mogelijk uit het geslacht Egishe im; zij geldt als een nicht of achternicht van paus Leo 1X, weduwe van Herman graaf van Hene-gouwen, overl. ca. 1050, zn. van Reginar V van Henegouwen en Mathilde van Verdun), regentes van Henegouwen na 1070, overl. 15-3-1086. 3. Boudewijn II van Henegouwen, geb. ca. 1056, graaf van Henegouwen (aanvankelijk onder regentschap van zijn moeder) 1070, ziet na de slag bij Kassel (22-2-1071) geen kans zijn toen daar gesneuvelde broer Arnold 111 op te volgen als graaf van Vlaanderen aangezien hun oom Robrecht ‘de Fries’ zich v an de macht aldaar heeft meester gemaakt en weldra ook door de Franse koning en de Duitse keizer wordt erkend; moet nogmaals van Vlaanderen afzien 1085; neemt deel aan de Eerste Kruistocht; wordt na de inname van Antiochië (juni 1098) ermede belast dat te gaan melden aan de keizer in Constantinopel doch wordt tijdens deze tocht in Klein-Azië kennelijk overvallen en vermoord ; wordt bijgenaamd ‘van Jeruzalem’ (hoewel hij die stad nooit heeft bereikt), tr. 1084 Ida van Leuven,’ geb. ca. 1065, begeeft zich als weduwe naar Klein-Azië om daar persoonlijk (doch vergeefs) een onderzoek in te stellen naar het lot van haar gemaal, overl. na 1103, dr. van Hendrik 11, graaf van Leuven en Adela van de Betuwe. 4. Boudewijn III van Henegouwen, geb. 1087188, graaf van Henegouwen (aanvankelijk onder regentschap van zijn moeder) 1098, voert evenals zijn ou-ders en zijn grootmoeder herhaaldelijk strijd tegen de achtereenvolgende graven van Vlaanderen doch steeds tevergeefs; moet Kamerijk afstaan 1110; overl. 1120, tr. ca. 1107’ Jolante van Gelre, regentes van Henegouwen 1120-ca. 1125, begr. Bergen (Mons, Sainte-Waudru), dr. van Gerard 1 graaf van Gelre en Clementia van Poitou, vrou-we van Gleiberg. 5. Boudewijn IV van Henegouwen, geb. ca. 1110, graaf van Henegouwen (onder regentschap van zijn moeder) 1120, zelfstandig ca. 1125; tracht herhaalde-lijk ook gewapenderhand zijn aanspraken op Vlaanderen door te zetten doch steeds zonder succes, zo ook wanneer hij tijdens de afwezigheid wegens kruistocht van Dirk van de Elzas (1148-49) Vlaanderen binnenvalt; verkrijgt bij de verzoening echter de belofte dat zijn zoon met een dochter van Vlaanderen zal huwen 1151; vergroot zijn machtsgebied door de verwerving van de heerlijk-heden Ath, Braine-le-Villotte (nadien Braine-le-Comte genaamd), Chimay en Ostrevant; verkrijgt van zijn op dat moment kinderloze zwager graaf Hendrik (‘de Blinde’) van Namen de blo ot eigendom der Namense allodia Herpignies juni 1163; draagt vanwege een hem overkomen ongeval veel van het feitelijke bestuur over aan zijn zoon 1167, overl. Bergen (Mons) 6-11-1171, begr. ald. (Sainte-Waudru), tr. ca. 1130 Adelheid (Alice) van Namen, geb. ca. 1110, overl. juli 1168, begr. Bergen (Mons, Sainte-Waudru), dr. van Godfried, graaf van Namen en diens tweede gemalin Ermesinde van Luxemburg. 6. Boudewijn V van Henegouwen, geb. ca. 1148, mederegent van Henegou-wen 1167; door zijn vader tot ridder geslagen Pasen (29-3-)1168; graaf van Hene-gouwen 1171; kondigt een landvrede af (la Paix de Hainaut) 1172; wordt door zijn (inmiddels blind geworden) oom graaf Hendrik van Namen ook als opvolger aangewezen in de lenen te weten Namen, Durbuy, Laroche en Luxemburg 1182/83 (goedgekeurd door keizer Frederik 1 Barbarossa Hagenau 11-3-1184 en bekrachtigd op de Rijksdag te Mainz 20/22-5-1184) onder toezegging van de kei-zer deze lenen dan gezamenlijk tot markgraafschap te verhogen; weet ondanks herhaaldelijk verzet van zijn (alsnog vader geworden) oom deze regeling groten-deels doorgezet te krijgen op de Rijksdag van Schwäbisch Hall 23-9-1190 waar hij tot markgraaf en rijksvorst wordt verheven; maakt zich zodra hij de dood van Philips van de Elzas (Akko 1-6-1191) verneemt, meester van Vlaanderen waar hij op grond van zijn huwelijk opvolgt (Boudewijn VIII) sept. 1191 (beleend met Kroon-Vlaanderen door Philips Augustus van Frankrijk 1-3-1192 en met Rijks-Vlaanderen door keizer Hendrik VI); verslaat de hoogbejaarde Hendrik ‘de Blinde’ nogmaals Noville-sur-Mehaigne 1-8-1194, maar overlijdt vóór hem Ber-gen (Mons) 17-12-1195, begr. ald. (Sainte-Waudru), tr. Le Quesnoy april 1169 Margaretha van Vlaanderen, geb. ca. 1140/45, na de dood van haar broer (graaf Philips van de Elzas) gravin van Vlaanderen 1191, overl. Brugge 15-11-1194, begr. ald. (Sint-Donaas), dr. van Dirk van de Elzas, graaf van Vlaanderen, en diens tweede gemalin Sybille van Anjou. 7. Boudewijn VI van Henegouwen, geb. Valenciennes juli 1171, door de dood van zijn moeder graaf van Vlaanderen (Boudewijn 1X) 1194, door die van zijn vader ook graaf van Henegouwen (Boudewijn VI) 1195; beleent na de dood van Hendrik de Blinde van Luxemburg (14-8-1196) zijn jongere broer Philips met Namen (die daarna echter, bij de definitieve regeling Dinant 26-7-1199, alleen het deel ten westen van de Maas behoudt); kiest na de dubbelkeuze van 1198 in de Staufisch-Welfische tegenstelling de partij van de door Engeland ondersteun-de Otto IV; legt samen met zijn echtgenote de gelofte af op kruistocht te gaan 23-2-1200; vertrekt (Vierde Kruistocht) Pasen (14-4-)1202; neemt deel aan het be-leg van Zara, wordt na de verovering van Constantinopel gekozen tot keizer van het Latijnse Keizerrijk 9-5 en gekroond in de Hagia Sophia 16-5-1204 (Boude-wijn 1); wordt wanneer hij Adrianopel belegert, gevangen genomen 14-4-1205 en overl. in Bulgaarse gevangenschap na 20-7-1205,’ tr. Château-Thié ry 13-1-1186 Maria van Champagne, geb. ca. 1174, blijft bij vertrek van haar gemaal wegens zwangerschap achter en fungeert vooreerst als regentes van Vlaanderen en Hene-gouwen; vertrekt na de geboorte van haar tweede dochter Margaretha, alsnog maar overlijdt zonder haar gemaal te hebben weergezien Akko 9-8-1204, dr. van Henri 1 ‘le Libéral’, graaf van Champagne, en Maria van Frankrijk. 8. Margaretha van Constantinopel, geb. juli/aug. 1202, ged. Valenciennes (Saint-Jean), door het kinderloos overlijden van haar oudere zuster Johanna: gravin van Vlaanderen (Margaretha 11) en Henegouwen 5-12-1244, staat Vlaan-deren af aan haar zoon Guy van Dampierre 1278, overl. 10-2-1280, tr. (1) Le Quesnoy (vóór 23)-7-1212 Bouchard van Avesnes, geb. ca. 11 82 of eerder (1172?), is cantor van N.D. de Laon sept. 1205; subdiaken en tresorier van het kapittel van Doornik, maar legt deze functies neer en keert, zonder dat zulks kerkelijk officieel is gesanctioneerd, terug in wereldlijke staat enkele jaren vóór 11-12-1211, wordt door d e graaf van Vlaanderen (Ferrand van Portugal) aangesteld tot hoogbaljuw van Henegouwen begin 1212 (tot uiterlijk 22-11-1213) en door hem bevestigd als leenman voor Estroeungt 23-7-1212; claimt namens zijn echtgenote een deel van haar vaders erfenis 3-4-1214; neemt aan Vlaamse zijde deel aan de slag bij Bouvines 27-7- 1214, wordt gevangen genomen, maar weet te ontsnappen en begeeft zich met zijn echtgenote naar zijn neef te Houffalize waar hij zes jaar met haar woont; wordt inmiddels (te beginnen 20-2-1215) op grond van aanklachten van zijn schoonzuster gravin Johanna van Vlaanderen door de pausen Innocentius 111 en Honorius 111 herhaaldelijk in de ban gedaan; doet van tijd tot tijd invallen in Henegouwen, doch wordt bij een daarvan gevangen genomen 1219 en uitgele-verd aan zijn schoonzuster die hem gevangen houdt tot 1221; begeeft zich naar Rome om zijn positie (en daarmee zijn huwelijk) te regelen 1222, keert terug tweede helft 1224, maar moet dan constateren dat zijn vrouw inmiddels her-trouwd is (met Guillaume van Dampierre); overl. begin 1244, begr. abdij Claire-fontaine, zn. van Jacques d’Oisy, heer van Avesnes, en Adèle de Guise; tr. (2) 18-8/15-11-1223 (dispensatie vanwege verwantschap in de 3de/4de graad verleend mei 1230)’ ... read more > Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#005a9bD. Spencer HinesFeb 21 1998, 12:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: "D. Spencer Hines" ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX))
Date: 1998/02/21
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper and a Dutch girl from Zeeland
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Fascinating post. It *is* important. I can read most of it. Could you translate some of it for us? I realize it is quite long. Could you please leave the Dutch names in Dutch? Perhaps you could show us the line of descent from Charlemagne. We all might even learn some Dutch --- and that would be a good thing. Thank you. D. Spencer Hines -- "Well, that's what I mean. You know, if all the people who are named ...deny it....That's all, I mean, I expect them to come looking into it and interview you and everything, uh, but I just think that if everybody's on record denying it you've got no problem.....I wonder if I'm going to be blown out of the water with this. I don't see how they can...if they don't, if they don't have pictures." Governor Bill Clinton --- Telephonic Advice to Gennifer Flowers [1991] Ph.J. van Dael wrote in message ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX))... >By mistake I have deleted a message of the list about Fairfaix/Colepper. >What I recall is that the sender was curious about any links to English >royalty. (Why is it that Americans are so deperate to prove their >ancestry from nobility and kings, etc.?) >I cannot provide English royals, but Thomas Colepepper married a Dutch >girl, and it is probable that she is a descendant from Charlemagne.Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#cc8600DavidBottsFeb 23 1998, 12:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts)
Date: 1998/02/23
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper and a Dutch girl from Zeeland
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BTW: If you can run a line to Charlemagne, we should be able to cousin members of the Gaines family who married into the families Botts with those Botts descended of Lord Fairfax.. Dave Botts Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#b71c0cPh.J.van DaelFeb 23 1998, 12:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Ph.J.van Dael)
Date: 1998/02/23
Subject: Fairfax/Colepepper and a Dutch girl from Zeeland
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Here are again the quarterings of Margaretha van Hesse with additions to Eustace II of Boulogne, from whome you can find your way to Charlemagne. Speciaal op verzoek van de heer D. Spencer Hines geef ik een lijn naar Karel de Grote weer die loopt over Baerte van IJsselstein. Bent u misschien ook geïnteresseerd in de genealogie van het Amstel/IJsselstein? Jan Klesser: als je dit leest weet je in ieder geval dat je mailinglist werkt! 1. Margaretha van Hesse, tr. Thomas Colepepper 2. Jan (van) Hes(se), door koop heer van Piershil en Weena, overl. 1637, tr. 2) Anna van Berchem (kinderloos), tr. 1) 3. Catharina (Clara) van Cats 4. Hans Hes, tr. 4.8.1601 5. Barbara van Panhuijsen (hertr. raadsheer Vosbergen), geb. Antwerpen 9 sept. 1579. overl. ‘s-Gravenhage 3 okt. 1638, begr. aldaar 11 okt. in d e Kloosterker. Na diens dood hertrouwde zij te Leiden 14 juli 1609 Caspur van Vosbergen, raadsheer in de Hoge Raad. 6. Abel van Cats, overl. 1606, tr. 7. Charlotte van Tuijll van Serooskerke, overl. 1629. 8. Jan Hes, koopman te Middelburg, dood in 1572, tr. 9. Margaretha van Nispen Gerrit Gerritsz.dr. 10. Peter Panhuijs Servaesz., burger te Antwerpen, begr. Oude Kerk te Amsterdam 12 nov. 1585, tr. ald. 1561 11. Margaretha Hooftman, begr. Oude Kerk te Amsterdam 15 nov. 1585 12. Mr. Anthonius van Cats, overl. 1554, tr. 13. Maria van Coulster, overl. na 1562. 22. Bartholomeus Hooftman, koopman, schepen en burgemeester van Trier 24. Willem van Cats, heer van Cats, Kapelle, Biezelinge en Simonspolder, admi-raal van Zeeland, baljuw van Goes, overl. vóór 9-7-1523, tr. 150 9 25. Maria van Bruelis, beleend te Reimerswaal 1492 en te Lodijke 1496, herenigt alle goederen van haar ouders op Zuid-Beveland, overl. 1542 48. Jacob van Cats, tr. 49. Elisabeth van Ruyven. 98. Willem van Ruyven, geb. ca. 1415, overl. 1455, tr. 1444/45 99. Agnes van Riedwijck Doevendr. 196. Claes van Ruyven, geb.ca. 1370(?), overl. 1427, tr. voor 1400 197. Agnes van Schoten 198. Doeve van Riedwijck Willemsz., tr. 199. Baerte van Egmond van Merensteyn, zij kreeg in 1414 van haar oudste broer een halve korentiende te Assendelft en was in 1440 nog in leven. 392. Claes van Ruyven, overl. voor 15.6.1393, tr. 1356 393. Liesbeth van Zaenden 394. Willem van Schoten, tr. 395. Machteld Claes Simonsz.dr. 398. Aelbrecht van Egmond van Merensteyn, werd op 16.3.1382 als opvolger van zijn vader beleend, tr. 399. Agnes van Beesde, werd gelijftocht op 15.4.1385 786. Hugo van Zaenden Willemsz. 796 . Jan van Egmond van Merensteyn, werd in 1345 tot ridder geslagen, overl. voor 16.3.1382, tr. 2) 797. Baerte van IJsselstein, werd getocht door haar man op 29.11.1360 1592. Aelbrecht Floris heren Wouterszn. van Egmond, gegoed o.m. te Beverwijk, op 14.7.1329 wordt als zijn echtgenote vermeld 1593. Elisabeth van der Woude 1594. Otto van IJsselstein, overl. voor 1.3.1353, tr. 2) Mechteld van Zuilen, tr. 1) 1595. Berta Grauwert, 3184. Floris heren Woutersz., in 1296 kastelein van Medemblik, in 1298 baljuw van Hoogwouderambacht en Drechterland. 3188. Gijsbert van Amstel, ridder, heer van Benschop, vermeld 1290-1342, beleend met IJsselstein, stichtte de stad en de St. Nicolaeskerk ald. in het kerspel Eiteren, overl. tussen 9 mei 1342 en 2 okt. 1343 , begr. IJsselstein (St. Nicolaeskerk), tr. ca. 1280 3189. Bertha van Heukelom, overl. 25.2.1322, begr. IJsselstein (St. Nicolaeskerk). 6376. Arnold van Amstel, ridder, heer van Benschop, vermeld 1267-1290, bouwde de burcht IJsselstein , overl. 1291, tr. 6377. Johanna, vermeld als diens weduwe in 1300. 12752. Gijsbrecht (III) van Amstel, geb. ca. 1200, heer van Amstel, ministeriaal van de bisschop van Utrecht, ridder. Getuige voor de elect Otto in 1238 (samen met zijn vader), 1239 , 1240 , mogelijk ook in 1241 , 1244 (2x) ; in 1245 verkoopt Gijsbrecht van Vechten 12 morgen land bij Amelisweerd, welke hij in leen van Gijsbrecht van Amstel en in achterleen van de bisschop houdt, aan de abdij van Oostbroek en hij zal ze de abdij in volle eigendom overdragen zodra het leenverband is opgeheven ; belooft in 1247 aan de voogd, de raden en de gemeente van Lubek zijn medewerking om aan hun medeburgers, die in de strijd tegen de rover Markward Culen gewond zijn, hun schade te doen herstellen, en verzoekt daarentegen aan zijn mannen hun kogge te doen teruggeven ; in 1247 getuige als de rooms-koning Willem zekere bij Delft gelegen landerijen aan zijn tante Richarda geeft en deze ze vervolgens aan de Duitse orde schenkt ; getuige voor het kapittel van Oudmunster te Utrecht in 1247 ; in 1249 getuige voor de echtgenote van Gijsbrecht van Ruwiel en in 1248/49 onder de zegelaars voor Gijsbrecht van Ruwiel , zou volgens Greidanus overleden zijn in 1354 (hoe komt’ie daaraan?). Tr. 12753. NN van Kuijc 25506. Albert, heer van Kuijc, geb. ca. 1160, overl. 1233, tr. ca. 1195 25507. Nargaretha van Merum 51012. Hendrik II van Kuijc, geb. ca. 1130, overl. 1204, tr. ca. 1160 51013. Sophia van Renen, vermeld 1191-1203 51014. Rutger van Merum, tr. 51015. Aleijdis (van Horne?) 102024. Herman van Kuijc, geb. ca. 1100, overl. ca. 1168, tr. ca. 1130 102025. NN (waarschijnlijk een dochter uit het huis Laroche/Namen) 204048. Hendrik I van Kuijc, geb. ca. 1070, overl. voor 9.8.1108, tr. ca. 1100 204049. Alveradis (gravin van Hochstaden), vermeld 1108-1131 408096. Herman (van Malsen), vermeld 1057, ca. 1080, tr. ca. 1070 408097. Ida van Boulogne (zij hertrouwt ca. 1080 Cono graaf de Montaigu) 408098. Gerard I van Hochstaden, tr. 408099. Aleijdis van Wickrath (does anyone now her ancestors?) 816194. Eustachius II graaf van Boulogne ca. 1049, ging met Willem de Veroveraar naar Engeland, overl. ca. 1080. From him you can easily find your way to Charlemagne. Could you give us the descendants in the States of Margaretha van Hesse? Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#802f97William Addams ReitwiesnerFeb 24 1998, 12:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (William Addams Reitwiesner)
Date: 1998/02/24
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper and a Dutch girl from Zeeland
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(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Ph.J.van Dael) wrote: >Here are again the quarterings of Margaretha van Hesse with additions to >Eustace II of Boulogne, from whome you can find your way to Charlemagne. Well, maybe not.>408096. Herman (van Malsen), vermeld 1057, ca. 1080, tr. ca. 1070 >408097. Ida van Boulogne (zij hertrouwt ca. 1080 Cono graaf de Montaigu) >816194. Eustachius II graaf van Boulogne ca. 1049, ging met Willem de >Veroveraar naar Engeland, overl. ca. 1080. From him you can easily find >your way to Charlemagne. That Herman's wife Ida was of the family of the Counts of Boulogne is reported in *Europaeische Stammtafeln*, ed. Schwennicke, Band VIII, Tafel 35 as just a guess. She's not shown as one of the children of Eustace in Schwennicke Band III Tafel 621. >Could you give us the descendants in the States of Margaretha van Hesse? ; From the second edition of Cokayne's *Complete Peerage*, vol III, p. 365, note (a), she had only one child, a daughter named Catherine, who married Thomas Fairfax, 5th Lord Fairfax. Cokayne, vol V, p. 232, note (d), shows that after the deaths, without surviving issue, of their sons (the 6th and 7th Lords), the property was inherited by their sister, Catherine's only daughter Frances, who married Denny Martin, and had two sons, neither of whom had children. This would mean that the last descendant of Margaretha van Hesse died in 1821, and that she has no living descendants in the States or anywhere else. See also Ruvigny, *Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal*, Anne of Exeter volume [1907], Table LXIII. William Addams Reitwiesner (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc." Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#cc8600DavidBottsFeb 24 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts)
Date: 1998/02/24
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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Help Help You All: We are trying to sort out the Fairfax, Culpeper, Botts tie. All help appreciated from you all with access to books we do not have. RE: From the second edition of Cokayne's *Complete Peerage*, vol III, p. 365, note (a), she had only one child, a daughter named Catherine, who married Thomas Fairfax, 5th Lord Fairfax. Cokayne, vol V, p. 232, note (d), shows that after the deaths, without surviving issue, of their sons (the 6th and 7th Lords), the property was inherited by their sister, Catherine's only daughter Frances, who married Denny Martin, and had two sons, neither of whom had children. This would mean that the last descendant of Margaretha van Hesse died in 1821, and that she has no living descendants in the States or anywhere else. See also Ruvigny, *Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal*, Anne of Exeter volume [1907], Table LXIII ; . Taking this into consideration we have some confusion here. From the Database of One Million Claimed Relations to the Families Botts work-in-process lines ("&" marks the iffy entries) 1 Thomas Fairfax 1560 - 1640 +Wife of Thomas Fairfax WFT Est. 1560-1567 - .. 2 Ferdinando Fairfax 1584 - 1647/48 . +Wife of Ferdinando Fairfax WFT Est. 1584-1594 - 1619 ..... 3 Thomas Fairfax 1611/12 - 1671 .... +Anne Vere WFT Est. 1607-1623 - 1665 ........ 4 Mary Fairfax 1636 - 1704 ....... +George Villiers WFT Est. 1627-1640 - ..... 3 ? Fairfax WFT Est. 1612-1619 - .... +? Martin WFT Est. 1612-1619 - ........ 4 Philip Fairfax WFT Est. 1651-1674 - Bef. 1711 ....... +Catherine Culpeper 1670 - 1719 **Catherine is the descendant of Marguritte (as writted in the Deed of Thomas Botts for 198 Acres in Stafford County from Lady Catherine Fairfax, 1711.) This Marguritte who m. Thomas Culpeper is AKA Margaretha van Hess** ............ 5 Frances + Denny Martin 6 Child of Denny Martin 6 Child of Denny Martin ............ 5 Thomas 'the Proprietor' Fairfax WFT Est. 1669-1714 - Aft. 1747 ........... + Wife of Thomas Fairfax WFT Est. 1669-1714 - ............... 6 &Sophia L. Fairfax's grandfather ..................... 7 &Sophia L. Fairfax's Father ........................ 8 John W. Fairfax WFT Est. 1813-1833 - ....................... +Wife of John W. Fairfax WFT Est. 1813-1833 - ............................ 9 Henry Fairfax 1850 - 1916 ........................... +Eugenia Baskerville 1873 - ........................ 8 ? Fairfax WFT Est. 1813-1833 - ....................... +? Jones WFT Est. 1813-1833 - ............................ 9 R. M. Jones WFT Est. 1829-1873 - ............................ 9 W. B. Jones WFT Est. 1829-1873 - ........................ 8 Sophia L. Fairfax 1823 - 1895 <<<" a ggd of Lord Fairfax - which one, if not Thomas or his Younger Bro ther?>> ..................... +William Alexander Botts 1811 - 1861 .............. 5 The Younger Brother and 7th Lord Fairfax Article that appeared in the "Fredericksburg Star", Fredericksburg, VA, dated Apr 27, 1895, pg 2, column 2: "Mrs. Sophia L. Botts, mother of the late W. A. Botts and of Mr. E. C. Botts, died at her residence near Stafford Store, on the 22nd instant. She was a sister of Col. John Fairfax, of Loudoun, and an aunt of State Senator Henry Fairfax, of Loudoun, and of Mr. W. B. (could be R.) Jones, of Ludlow, near Roseville, Va." Article that appeared in the " Fredericksburg Star", Fredericksburg, VA, dated Apr 30, 1895, pg 3, column 2: ; "A Good Woman Goes to Her Rest. Mrs. Sophia Fairfax Botts, relict of the late Wm. Botts, died at her home in Stafford county on Monday, April 22, 1895, aged 72. She had.a great sufferer from partial paralysis for a year or more,...(she bore?) her affliction with great fortitude. She was a lady of cheerful disposition and of rare conversational powers. She leaves six children, three sons and three daughters, all grown, with numerous grand children to mourn their loss. Mrs. Botts was of ... ancestry, being a great grand daughter of Lord Fairfax of colonial...owned all the land in what is called the Northern Neck of Virginia, lying between the Rappahannock and Potomac rivers, and from the Chesapeake bay back to the Alleghany mountains. Lord Fairfax, inherited the above land from Lord Culpeper whose daughter he married. She was a sister of Col. John W. Fairfax, of Loudoun county, who was Gen. Longstreet's Chief of Staff during our late war; an aunt of Hon. Henry Fairfax of the same county, also an aunt of Messrs. R. M. and W. B. Jones of Stafford county." ........ 6 Robert Fairfax 1703 - Bef. 1794 ....... +Wife of Robert Fairfax WFT Est. 1705-1764 - ........... 7 Bryan Fairfax WFT Est. 1750-1793 - Aft. 1811 .......... +Elizabeth Cary WFT Est. 1775-1795 - ............. 8 Ninth Baron Lord Fairfax WFT Est. 1811 - ............ +Wife of Ninth Baron Lord Fairfax WFT Est. 1800-1811 - ............... 9 Charles Snowden Fairfax 1829 - 1869 .............. +Ada Benham Abt. 1835 - 1888 ............. 8 Children of Bryan Fairfax WFT Est. 1811-1833 - .... 4 &Henry Fairfax WFT Est. 1651-1674 - 1708 .... +Anne Harrison WFT Est. 1651-1674 - ...... 5 William Fairfax 1691 - 1757 ..... +Sarah Walker WFT Est. 1681-1706 - 1730/31 ....... 6....... 6 George William Fairfax 1724 - 1787 ........ +Sally Cary 1730 - 1811 ....... 6 Sarah Fairfax 1728 - 1761 ...... +John Carlyle 1719/20 - 1780 ....... 6 Ann 'Nancy' Fairfax 1728 - 1761 ......... +Lawrence Washington Abt. 1723 - 1752 .......... 7 Sarah Washington Abt. 1745 - 1752 ......... +George Lee 1714 - 1757 .......... 7 George Fairfax Lee 1754 - 1804 .......... 7 Lancelot Lee 1756 - .......... 7 William Lee 1758 - 1838 .... +Deborah ? WFT Est. 1691-1711 - ... 3 &Younger Son of Ferdinando Fairfax WFT Est. 1612-1619 - Bef. 1671 . 2 Younger Son of Thomas Fairfax WFT Est. 1585-1600 - +Wife of Younger Son of Thomas Fairfax WFT Est. 1585-1600 - ... 3 Henry Fairfax Abt. 1607 - 1693 Thanks, Dave Botts Dave Botts<... ...>William Alexander Botts Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#cc8600DavidBottsFeb 24 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts)
Date: 1998/02/24
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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Update to the Lords Fairfax query: Sophia L. Fairfax's father has now been identified as Henry Fairfax b. September 29, 1774 in Charles County, **Maryland**, d. October 06, 1847, "a shipping magnate of Dumfries, Virginia" Sophia's brother has been identified as John Walter Fairfax Charles Snowden Fairfax 1829-1869 died at the home of his mother in Baltimore, **Maryland** Seems we have some progress, but we could use you peerage experts to get our Lords Fairfax down right. For all you cousins of the family of Thomas Botts of Virginia Botts out there on the newsgroup, for bonus points, who can connect William Fairfax Gray to the Lord's Fairfax. He was a 19th century cousin of Walter Browne Botts. Together with William's son, Peter W. Gray, Walter founded what became the "little" law firm of Baker and Botts. Dave Botts San Antonio, Texas Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#b71c0cPh.J.van DaelFeb 24 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Ph.J.van Dael)
Date: 1998/02/24
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper and a Dutch girl from Zeeland
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William Addams Reitwiesner wrote: - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - <?hide_quotes=no> > leefd...@pi.net (Ph.J.van Dael) wrote: > >Here are again the quarterings of Margaretha van Hesse with additions to > >Eustace II of Boulogne, from whome you can find your way to Charlemagn e. > Well, maybe not. >> >408096. Herman (van Malsen), vermeld 1057, ca. 1080, tr. ca. 1070 > >408097. Ida van Boulogne (zij hertrouwt ca. 1080 Cono graaf de Montaig u) > >816194. Eustachius II graaf van Boulogne ca. 1049, ging met Willem de > >Veroveraar naar Engeland, overl. ca. 1080. From him you can easily fin d > >your way to Charlemagne. > That Herman's wife Ida was of the family of the Counts of Boulogne is > reported in *Europaeische Stammtafeln*, ed. Schwennicke, Band VIII, Taf el > 35 as just a guess. She's not shown as one of the children of Eustace in > Schwennicke Band III Tafel 621. Yes, your are right, in Schwennicke's *Europaeische Stammtafeln*, Band VI II, Tafel 35, "de Boulogne" is put between brackets, just as Eustace II of Boulogne and his wife Ida of Lorraine. Band VIII was published in 1979, and in the Literaturverzeichnis you will see that Schwennicke's source is (a.o) Dr. J.A. Coldeweij, who took his doctors-degree in 1981 from his thesis "De heren van Kuijc 1096-1400)", only a few years later. Sadly Coldeweij died in 1996, (after tracing Kuijcs for all his life) but from our conversations I am convinced that it is more than probable that Ida was the daughter of Eust ache of Boulogne. His theses (in Dutch) almost starts with Ida van Boulogne: In a charter of the year 1096 (Sloet, Oorkondeboek der Graafschappen Gelr e en Zutphen, nr. 196, anno 1096) "van Kuijc" is mentioned for the first time. As one of the witnesses for Ida of Lorraine, widow of count Eustace of Boulo gne, and her son Godfrey of Bouillon, is mentioned: "Henricus de Cuck". Ida an d Godfrey acknowledge the gift in favour of the abbey of Afflighem of speci fic rights of some lands. As the first two witnesses in the charters are mentioned two members of t he counts of Gelre "Gerardus comes de Gelre et frater eius Henricus": Gerard II van Wassenberg-Gelre and Hendrik van Kriekenbeek. Then follows Godschalk "de Iacen" (= Jauche or Geten). After him "our" "Henricus de Cuck", and aft er him "Arnulphus de Rode", followed by: "Cono de Montaut" (= Montaigu), Dirk van Bemmel, Hendrik van Bierbeek and others. The fact that two members of the Gelre-family come first as witnesses giv es the strong impression that the are closely related to Ida. In the same ye ar Gerard van Wassenberg-Gelre and his uncle Gozewijn van Heinsberg (father' s brother), are witnesses, when castle Bouillon is sold to bishop Otbert va n Luik. Gozewijn possessed a part in this castle. When Ida, mother of Godfr ied van Bouillon, sells her allodia at Baisy and Genappe to the abbey at Nijv el, among the witnesses there are even three member of the Gelre-family: Gera rd, his brother Hendrik and Gozewijn van Heinsberg. About the next witness in the 1096-charter, Godschalk "de Iacen", nothing is known. Significant is Hendrik van Kuijc's place before Cono van Montaigu. Hendri k must have been about 25 years of age and Cono a generation older. About C ono van Montaigu is known that he was married to a (half?)sister of Godfrey o f Bouillon and that he died in 1106. Butkens in his family-tree of Boulogne, although not always reliable, mentiones a sister of Godfrey's father as "Mere de l'éveque Godefroid". He doesn't further specifies this bishop. Although Butkens is wrong about th e generation, he could be right. Butkens was not known with the fact that Hendrik I van Kuijc, besides a brother Andreas, also had a brother called Godfried. It is known that the mother of Andreas van Kuijc, bishop of Utrecht, was Ida van Boulogne. Combine these fact and draw your conclusi ons. It is very probable that Ida van Boulogne, sister or halfsister of Godfre y of Bouillon, married (for the first time) ca. 1070 with Herman (not yet call ed "van Kuijc") and were the parents of Hendrik I van Kuijc. After Herman's death (about 1080) she could be remarried to Cono the Montaigu, also widower himself. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - <?hide_quotes=no> > >Could you give us the descendants in the States of Margaretha van Hess e? > >From the second edition of Cokayne's *Complete Peerage*, vol III, p. 3 65, > note (a), she had only one child, a daughter named Catherine, who marri ed > Thomas Fairfax, 5th Lord Fairfax. Cokayne, vol V, p. 232, note (d), sh ows > that after the deaths, without surviving issue, of their sons (the 6th and > 7th Lords), the property was inherited by their sister, Catherine's onl y > daughter Frances, who married Denny Martin, and had two sons, neither o f > whom had children. This would mean that the last descendant of Margare tha > van Hesse died in 1821, and that she has no living descendants in the > States or anywhere else. See also Ruvigny, *Plantagenet Roll of the Bl ood > Royal*, Anne of Exeter volume [1907], Table LXIII. ; Maybe David Botts will react to this? Philip van Dael Rhenen, Holland Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#2e7044JKent10581Feb 24 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)
Date: 1998/02/24
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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In a message dated 98-02-24 14:46:37 EST, (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)om writes: << From the Database of One Million Claimed Relations to the Families Botts >> Yo, Dave, good buddy, you got my curiosity up. Just who was the first Botts and when? Jno Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#d66103DavidBottsFeb 24 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)
Date: 1998/02/24
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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RE: Just who was the first Botts and when? Hi Jno and all: Seems we Botts have been around since Adam.Adam de Botts of County Berf, England 1273 is the first I know of , but I cannot tie him to later Botts Ref: Dictionary of English and Welsh Names, Barchley. Robert, Richard and Henry Botts appear in various English locations within the 13th century These are among the oldest Botts in the US: ; Isaac Botts, killed by Indians up in Maine in October 16, 1675. Thomas Botts (what we call Thomas Botts I b. cc 1586-1653 ) shows up in Jamestown, Virginia Records and possibly had two brothers, maybe the father of: Thomas Botts (what we call Thomas Botts II b. abt 1674) the proven ancestor to my line. Radiating out from his son, Seth, are about 80 grandchildren alone. There are another dozen as yet unrelated who wash ashore in the early years of American history. On their heels came the Germanic Botts and Bott's. Dave Botts San Antonio, Texas Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#802f97William Addams ReitwiesnerFeb 25 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (William Addams Reitwiesner)
Date: 1998/02/25
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts) wrote:>........ 4 Philip Fairfax WFT Est. 1651-1674 - Bef. 1711 >....... +Catherine Culpeper 1670 - 1719 >............ 5 Thomas 'the Proprietor' Fairfax WFT Est. 1669-1714 - Aft. 1747 >........... + Wife of Thomas Fairfax WFT Est. 1669-1714 - ; You might want to check your chronology here, as you're claiming that a woman born in 1670 had a son who was born in 1669. William Addams Reitwiesner (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc." Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#cc8600DavidBottsFeb 25 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts)
Date: 1998/02/25
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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In the database of One Million a "WFT" date is a plug, pending better information. You are right that this plug is wrong. Back to the Lords and Barons Fairfax Q. 1 Are the Baroncy and Lordship Fairfax severable? Can one be Baron #4 and another be Lord #4? Q. 2 I have the strong impression that the peerage can pass throgh maternal lines. Is this the case? Q. 3 My sources are showing Fairfax's who were born Martin's. This is adding to the confusion in the line? Q. 4 I thought Burke's Peerage was iffy. Any comments on its accuracy, at least in the edition cited earlier in the list? Q. 5 "Bonus Points" - Baron Theo Bracht of Belgium is buying up downtown San Antonio through the shell, Euro-Alamo Investments. Who can tell me where to get a lead on this Baron? As you might guess, we may try to "Botts" him. Thanks, Dave Botts San Antonio, Texas "Where we engrave the names of Botts cousins down at the Alamo. At least those cousins in the Harrison, Darst and Garnett families " Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#802f97William Addams ReitwiesnerFeb 26 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (William Addams Reitwiesner)
Date: 1998/02/26
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts) wrote: >In the database of One Million a "WFT" date is a plug, pending better >information. You are right that this plug is wrong. >Back to the Lords and Barons Fairfax >Q. 1 Are the Baroncy and Lordship Fairfax severable? Can one be Baron #4 and >another be Lord #4? Different names for the same thing. The 4th Baron *is* the 4th Lord. >Q. 2 I have the strong impression that the peerage can pass throgh maternal >lines. Is this the case? Not the Fairfax peerage. >Q. 3 My sources are showing Fairfax's who were born Martin's. This is adding >to the confusion in the line? You didn't cite your sources, so I have no idea what they are showing. >Q. 4 I thought Burke's Peerage was iffy. Any comments on its accuracy, at >least in the edition cited earlier in the list? Some of the material in *each* edition of Burke's is good, and some of it is not. You shouldn't use Burke's as a source for 11th century connections, but you can (usually) use it as a source for 19th and 20th century connections. >Q. 5 "Bonus Points" - Baron Theo Bracht of Belgium is buying up downtown San >Antonio through the shell, Euro-Alamo Investments. Who can tell me where to >get a lead on this Baron? >As you might guess, we may try to "Botts" him. You may well try and do so, but since he's not a medieval personage, discussion of him and his connections is off-topic in a medieval genealogy newsgroup. William Addams Reitwiesner (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc." Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#cc8600DavidBottsFeb 26 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts)
Date: 1998/02/26
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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Hi All: "He had, by his wife Anne, one only daughter, born in 1636, and married to George Villiers, Second Duke of Buckingham, and who died in 1704. He was succeeded by his cousin Henry (grandson of the First Lord Fairfax), as Fourth Baron. Henry died in 1693, aged 86, without issue. Then his estates devolved to his *sister's son, Philip Martin (who took the name of Fairfax), a Lieutenant-General in the army.*" SRC: The Manx Society, Introductory note (1) by J.G.Cumming., The Manx Society, (Published 1868, reprinted in the rather scarce appendix to Daniel King's Vale-Royall Is Philip the Fifth Baron Fairfax of Cameron? Would appreciate any help as we seem to be finding a bunch of Fairfax's and Martin's . Thanks, Dave Botts BTW, we are finding tons of Fairfax's in the vicinity of where Charles Snowden Fairfax died at his mother's house in Maryland. He was: Lord Charles Snowden Fairfax, tenth Baron of Cameron, Scotland, whose British ancestors were given the grant of land by the British Crown which became the province and then the state of Virginia. Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#802f97William Addams ReitwiesnerFeb 27 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (William Addams Reitwiesner)
Date: 1998/02/27
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts) wrote: >Hi All: >"He had, by his wife Anne, one only daughter, born in 1636, and married to >George Villiers, Second Duke of Buckingham, and who died in 1704. He was >succeeded by his cousin Henry (grandson of the First Lord Fairfax), as Fourth >Baron. Henry died in 1693, aged 86, without issue. Then his estates devolved to >his *sister's son, Philip Martin (who took the name of Fairfax), a >Lieutenant-General in the army.*" >SRC: The Manx Society, Introductory note (1) by J.G.Cumming., The Manx Society, > (Published 1868, reprinted in the rather scarce appendix to Daniel King's >Vale-Royall >Is Philip the Fifth Baron Fairfax of Cameron? No. The 5th Baron Fairfax of Cameron was Thomas, oldest son of Henry, the 4th Baron (who actually died in 1688 aged 56 and with issue). Thomas died in 1710 and was succeeded by his oldest son, another Thomas, 6th Baron, who died unmarried in 1782. This Thomas was succeeded by his brother, Robert, 7th Baron, who died in 1793, age 86, and whose sister's son was Philip Martin alias Fairfax, who eventually inherited the estates. Looks like your Manx Society note skipped a whole century and two generations, and got the guy's name wrong. In 1793 the peerage (and not the estates) was inherited by Robert's first cousin once removed, Bryan Fairfax, 8th Baron, who was a grandson of a younger brother of the 5th Baron and thus a great-grandson of the 4th Baron (who your source claims had no children). All subsequent Barons Fairfax of Cameron, including the current one, are descended from Bryan. For further details see the second edition of Cokayne's *Complete Peerage*, vol. V, pp. 229-234. William Addams Reitwiesner (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc." Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#cc8600DavidBottsFeb 27 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts)
Date: 1998/02/27
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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Hi all: Many thanks to William and all you helpful folks in the group. We are getting closer to the bottom of the Fairfax story here. Dave Botts BTW: In keeping to list subject matter any one familiar with the Garnett's of 16th century: Kirby Lonsdale, Lancashire, England Kendall, Westmoreland County, England Eaglescliffe, Westmoreland County, England Casterton, Lancashire, England Ipswich, Ipswich County, England Q. 1 Are these families connected? Q. 2 Which, if any, are associated with Castle Dairy in England? Also, what is known of the family of Vivian de Gernet, the appointed Hereditary Forester of the royal forest in Lancashire County between the Ribble and the Mersey Rivers? The Office was held in his family cc 1100-1300 per my notes. Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#cc8600DavidBottsMar 9 1998, 12:00 am show options
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From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (DavidBotts)
Date: 1998/03/09
Subject: Re: Fairfax/Colepepper
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Hi All: This seems to be the Lords Fairfax 1-7. No Botts prove out as descended of the Lords Fairfax line. The Botts family link point still holding together appears at Ann 'Nancy' Fairfax, the same link point for the family of Napoleon. Thanks for the help on Fairfax and Colepeper lines. Dave Botts 1 Thomas 1 Fairfax 1560 - 1640 .. +Ellen Aske WFT Est. 1560-1567 - 1620 . 2 Ferdinando 2 Fairfax 1584 - 1647/48 ..... +Wife of Ferdinando Fairfax WFT Est. 1584-1594 - 1619 ..... 3 Thomas 3 'Black Tom' Fairfax 1611/12 - 1671 ......... +Anne Vere WFT Est. 1607-1623 - 1665 ......... 4 Mary Fairfax 1636 - 1704 ............. +George Villiers WFT Est. 1627-1640 - ..... 3 Younger Son of Ferdinando Fairfax WFT Est. 1612-1619 - Bef. 1671 . 2 Henry Fairfax WFT Est. 1585-1607 - 1665 ..... +Mary Cholmley WFT Est. 1585-1609 - 1649/50 ..... 3 Thomas Fairfax 1627/28 - 1640 ..... 3 Henry 4 Fairfax Abt. 1632 - 1688 ......... +Frances Barwick WFT Est. 1630-1656 - 1682/83 ......... 4 Thomas 5 Fairfax WFT Est. 1651-1674 - 1710 ............. +Catherine 'Cate' Culpeper 1670 - 1719Elizabeth Washington>George Washington Lewis>Mary Willis Lewis>1. Catherine Daingerfield Lewis=Achilles Murat ; Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#512dbdDon McArthurMar 23 1998, 12:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Don McArthur)
Date: 1998/03/23
Subject: VAUGHAN, Richard b c 1550
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Hi, I have now looked at the articles in DNB for Richard VAUGHAN, Bp London and his son in law John JEGGON, Bp Norwich. It states he was b c 1550 in Carnarvonshire, son of Thomas ap Robert Vychan, by his wife (Catherine - IGI) GRIFFIN and d 1607 of appoplexy. Can anyone extend Richards ancestry ? John JEGGON's widow, Lilia (VAUGHAN, dau of above) m 1619 Sir Charles CORNWALLIS, so there is a connection after all. -- Regards, Don McArthur. Listmoderator - M(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) Visit The MacArthur Family Tree Project - <http://www.web.netactive.co.za/~donmac> Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
" bgColor=#802f97William Addams ReitwiesnerMar 24 1998, 12:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
From: (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (William Addams Reitwiesner)
Date: 1998/03/24
Subject: Re: VAUGHAN, Richard b c 1550
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(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) (Don McArthur) wrote: >Hi, >I have now looked at the articles in DNB for Richard VAUGHAN, Bp London >and his son in law John JEGGON, Bp Norwich. >It states he was b c 1550 in Carnarvonshire, son of Thomas ap Robert >Vychan, by his wife (Catherine - IGI) GRIFFIN and d 1607 of appoplexy. >Can anyone extend Richards ancestry ? >John JEGGON's widow, Lilia (VAUGHAN, dau of above) m 1619 Sir Charles >CORNWALLIS, so there is a connection after all. Another daughter of Bishop Vaughan married Rev. Thomas Mallory, Dean of Chester Cathedral, and was grandmother of several Virginia immigrants named Mallory and Batte (see Roberts' *Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants*, pp. 313-314). Both of Vaughan's parents are mentioned in Bartrum's *Welsh Genealogies AD 1400-1500*. Thomas ap Robert is found on "Gollwyn 7 (A3)", and Catherine ferch Griffith is found on "Tr. G. 3 (E2)". Their ancestry can be traced through that work and through Bartrum's earlier *Welsh Genealogies AD 300-1400* (depending of course on your acceptance of the reliability of the Welsh pedigrees that Bartrum examined). William Addams Reitwiesner (XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc." Reply Details: Show quoted text | View source | Unwrap Lines | Forward
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