Genealogy Richard Remmé, The Hague, Netherlands » Elizabeth de Holand (Elizabeth Pomeroy ???) (1286-± 1332)

Données personnelles Elizabeth de Holand (Elizabeth Pomeroy ???) 

• Autre nom: Elizabeth de Holand
• Elle est née en l'an 1286 dans Upholland, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom.Source 3
• (Alt. Birth) environ 1288: Upholland, Lancashire, England.Source 2
• (Alt. Death) environ 1332.Source 2
• Elle est décédée environ 1332 dans Grey Friar's Church, Bodmin, Cornwall, England.Source 3
• Elle est enterrée en l'an 1332 dans Bodmin, Cornwall, England.Source 2
• Un enfant de Robert II de Holand et Elisabeth de Salisbury
• Cette information a été mise à jour pour la dernière fois le 4 décembre 2022.

Famille de Elizabeth de Holand (Elizabeth Pomeroy ???)

Elle est mariée avec Oliver de Carminow.

Ils se sont mariés environ 1319 à Trenowyth, Cornwall, England.

Enfant(s):

1. Roger de Carminow  ± 1312-± 1348 
2. Elizabeth de Carminow  ± 1314-± 1356 
3. Margaret de Carminow  ± 1316-????

Notes par Elizabeth de Holand (Elizabeth Pomeroy ???)

http://www.bgwaters.co.uk/petyt14.htm

Elizabeth Carminow

There is again confusion over the identity of Oliver's wife. She was definitely named Elizabeth, as she is named in various land records as the wife of Oliver [35] . In most sources, this Elizabeth is identified as the sister of John Holland Duke of Exeter [36] . This John Holland was the son of Sir Thomas Holland, Earl of Kent and Joan the Fair Maid of Kent, and if Elizabeth were his sister than her parentage would be the same. However there are difficulties with this scenario.

Joan, the Fair Maid of Kent, was the grand daughter of King Edward I through her father Edmund Earl of Kent [37] . Joan was first married secretly at the age of twelve, in 1341, to Thomas Holland [38] . When Thomas went on a crusade to Prussia Joan was married to William Montague, Earl of Salisbury, by her parents. On his return, three years later, Thomas Holland was appointed secretary to Joan's married household, in a strange love triangle, but eventually decided to reclaim his child bride. At the time in 1344 he apparently did not have sufficient funds to wage the legal battle for his love, but in 1347, he appealed to the Pope to annul Joan's marriage to the Earl of Salisbury and in 1349, the Pope decided in Holland's favour. Thomas Holland died in 1361 and Joan then married, as her third husband, the son of Edward III, the Black Prince.

As Joan was thirty-two years old in 1361, she would have been born about 1329. Oliver Carminow died in 1345 when Joan would have been about sixteen. Even if she had born a child at the age of thirteen, that child would have been only three at the time of Oliver Carminow's death. Therefore, it would not be physically possible for Oliver to have been the husband of a child of the Fair Maid of Kent.

Alternatively, another source suggests that Oliver Carminow married an Elizabeth Pomeroy [39] . This is a highly probable suggestion. It is difficult to understand why such confusion arose about Oliver's wife unless an Oliver Carminow really did marry a daughter of the maid of Kent and Thomas Holland. This Oliver may also have been Chamberlain to Richard II. As Richard II was the son of Joan, Fair Maid of Kent, and her third husband the Black Prince, it would seem logical that anyone who married her daughter would achieve high rank at court. It is possible that there may be another Oliver Carminow whose career details have become entwined with the life of our Oliver Carminow. I have yet to discover evidence to prove the existence of this other Oliver Carminow.

Alternatively it is possible that Oliver's wife Elizabeth Pomeray was a descendant of one of the Kings of England. One of Henry I's bastard children, Rohese, married a Henry de la Pomerai before 1135. It is possible that knowing that Oliver's wife was descended from a King, and that there was an Oliver who was prominent at Richard II's court that the two tales were muddled to produce the story that Oliver married the Maid of Kent [40] .

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[Valerie Pippi.ged]

LDS FHL AF # 9T36-S9.
Note: Source shows parents Robert de Holand and Maud La Zouche; howver, This Elizabeth was born in the generation before, so I have tentative placed her with Robert de Holand and Elizabeth de Salmsbury.  Needs further research.

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Barre chronologique Elizabeth de Holand (Elizabeth Pomeroy ???)

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