Fox and Anderson and Taylor families in USA » Lord Richard Vernon Clare Reviers (± 1060-1115)

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1. WikiTree, via https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Vernon-605...

   Richard de Reviers (or Redvers etc.) was a Norman who acquired lands in England after 1066, and received more significant crown holdings in the early 12th century as a supporter of King Henry I.
   
   In the 1086 Domesday Book, can be identified holding a single manor in Dorset, Mosterton. (See his Open Domesday profile, which also gives a map: https://opendomesday.org/name/richard-of-reviers/ .) This was held directly from King William I.
   The barony or honour which he later a acquired had two geographically distinct parts, which eventually had different fates when the line of inheritance ended in 1293. These were named after Christchurch in Hampshire, and Plympton in Devon. These were altogether equivalent to 15 knights' fees.[1]
   In Normandy, "the Réviers family were lords at Nehou in the Cotentin, Réviers in the Bessin and also at Vernon in the Vexin".[2]
   
   Stapleton's summary (p.cclxxiii) of what can be derived from the Anglo-Norman history writers is very helpful:[3]
   
   By Ordericus Vitalis, in treating of the events in Normandy of the year 1090 when prince Henry was in arms against his brothers, Hugh earl of Chester, and Richard de Redvers, de Radveriis, and the other barons of the Côtentin, except Robert de Moubrai, are to have held with him; and it was doubtless his support in this emergency which won for him the favour of the future sovereign.
   After his accession to the throne of England Ordericus again names Richard de Réviers among the strenuous and sagacious men King Henry admitted to his councils, and has also recorded his death in the course of 1107, at the same time noticing his burial at the monastery of Montebourg in Normandy, which he asserts to have been founded by him in his own property; that he ranked as founder is apparent from his name being yet to be traced on the covering stone of his tomb with the epithet fundator.
   His fidelity to Henry at the time of the return of Duke Robert from Palestine is also noted by William of Malmesbury, Richard de Reivers being one of the few nobles, he says, who alone supported the rightful cause.
   We know therefore that he died in 1107 and was buried at Montebourg. In French records, Richard's connection to this monastery can also be found. Stapleton (pp.cclxxi-cclxxii) shows how King Henry granted its rule to Richard, and Richard granted the monastery lands in Dorset and Devon.
   
   See also The Chronicle of Florence of Worcester[4]: [A.D. 1107.] In the present year died ... Richard de Redvers, ... of the King's council."
   
   Family
   Some members of the family used "de Vernon" as a second name. The second name which Richard used, spelled in various ways, is derived from modern Reviers (postcode 14470), which lies between the North Sea and Caen.[5] Thomas Stapleton (p.cclxx) noted that the family "had its local surname from the vill of Réviers, Rethvers, Redvers, Reveriae, Riveriae, situate in the Bessin between the rivers Seule and Mue near their confluence".[3]
   
   Siblings. Stapleton (p.cclxxiv) explained the charter evidence which shows that Richard had a brother named Hugh de Vernon (see below), and a sister named Adeliz. Hugh is identified because he is described as patruus (paternal uncle) of Richard's son.
   
   Based on the relatively recent summary by Keats-Rohan we can summarize Richard's immediate family as follows, and then consider what other proposals have been made.[6]
   
   Parents. He was apparently a close relative of William fitz Hugh de Vernon. (See further discussion below.) Complete Peerage proposed that Richard was the son of William de Vernon. Keats-Rohan, following Bearman and Stapleton, proposed that Richard was most likely a son of Baldwin, brother of both William de Vernon, and an earlier Richard de Redvers who died about 1050 apparently without heirs. Stapleton (p.cclxxviii) was apparently undecided between these two options.
   
   Wife and children. Richard married Avelina, daughter of William I de Peverel, of Nottingham. Her parentage and children are named in charters:
   
   Baldwin de Redvers (or Reviers), Richard's successor in England, who was still a minor in 1107 when his father died. He would become the first Anglo-Norman Earl of Devon.
   Robert de Sainte-Mère-Eglise.
   Hugh de Vernon.
   William de Vernon, Richard's successor in France, except in Sainte-Mère-Eglise (Stapleton p.cclxxv).
   Hawise, who married William I de Roumare, earl of Lincoln.
   Ancestry
   There is a long history of errors and discussion concerning the ancestry of Richard. Dugdale for example equated Richard with Richard the son of Baldwin de Meulles, a sheriff of Devon, a misunderstanding which still has an effect on genealogists today. The modern understanding is that Richard was a close relative of William de Vernon. Thomas Stapleton in his edition of the rolls of the Norman exchequer made observations which influenced the conclusions of Keats-Rohan and Bearman.[2] Most importantly, he noted that there had been a previous Richard de Reviers, who had brothers Baldwin and William. He died about 1060 and seems to have had no heirs himself. Stapleton also showed that the later Richard's family were successors of the earlier one, as shown by their interest in the grant made to Saint Pére de Chartres of lands in Gourbesville. This strongly suggests that the younger Richard was a son of one of his brothers, either William or Baldwin.
   
   Of the three brothers in 1060, William is often supposed to be William de Vernon, whose father's name is known to Hugh de Vernon, who became a monk later in life (Stapleton pp.cclxxvii-cclxxviii).
   
   Some of the key records which can be considered are summarized by Complete Peerage (CP), which proposes that Richard is son of William fitz Hugh de Vernon. To each of these we can contrast updated remarks of Keats-Rohan (K-R):
   
   CP. Richard's brother Hugh (see above) "may be the Hugh de Redeveris mentioned in a memorandum of La Trinite at Caen, and also the Hugh mentioned as son of William de Vernon in a document (of date about 1067) in the cartulary of La Trinité at Rouen, signed by William Vernonensis and Emma his wife (Round, Calendar, nos. 424, 82)."
   K-P (p.27) says that William de Vernon's son Hugh seems to have had Richard de Redvers and his brother Hugh de Vernon as heirs. Later, Richard was heir to both Hughs - his brother and his cousin.
   Query. What is the evidence that Hugh son of William died before Hugh brother of William, and that they were not the same person? The evidence, it seems, may be an old misunderstanding.[7]
   CP. "In the register of Carisbrooke (Monasticon, vol. vii, p. 1041) it is said that Richard de Reviers was nepos [which can mean nephew, grandson, cousin etc] of William fitz Osborn, after whose death (his sons John and Richard having d. v.p.) the Isle of Wight was inherited by the said Richard, tunc Comes Exonie. So that this Richard may have been son of William de Vernon, by Emma, sister of William fitz Osborn."
   K-R's proposal makes Richard a nephew of William de Vernon, so he would be nephew to the brother-in-law of William fitz Osborn.
   Query. Would that still be a "nepos"? (See below.)
   CP. "The continuator of William of Jumieges states that a niece of Gunnor the wife of Duke Richard was married to Osmund de Centumvillis, Vicomte de Vernon, and was mother of the first Fulk de Aneio and of the mother of the first Baldwin de Reviers." The first Baldwin de Redvers could be the brother of Richard who died 1060.
   K-R (p.25): "Evidence for the existence of Osmund and his son Fulk comes in a footnote to a charter for Bourgeuil by Richard II given in 1012. One Fulk fitz Osmund fitz Bursell regranted a hospes at Cliuillam (Cléville or Claville, Seine-Maritime), attested by his mother Satselina." Satselina could therefore be the niece of Gunnor?
   Query. The continuator actually specifies that this niece of Gunnor is a daughter of Erfast, her brother, who was also the father of Osbern, the father of William fitz Osbern. This raises the question of whether this writer was thinking of the same family connections which made Richard de Redvers a nepos of this William in the Carisbrooke register (see above). Erfast was grandfather of William fitz Osbern and also supposedly grandfather of Baldwin de Redvers, apparent father or uncle of Richard de Redvers who went to England. Note that cousins could be called nepotes (plural of nepos).
   Comments
   The following post-em from Curt Hofemann, curt_hofemann AT yahoo.com, contains some of the debate/speculation about the ancestry of Richard: [...] A dissenting argument on Richard's ancestry: Diana Trenchard posted privately to me on 9 Jan 1998 Subject: Re: Baldwin de Reviers [...]
   
   The following is a quote from the Introduction in "Charters of the Redvers Family and the Earldom of Devon 1090-1217' by Robert Bearman, pub 1994 by Devon and Cornwall Record Society, New Series, Vol 37." A more plausible theory had already been advanced by Thomas Stapleton in the 1840s but in such a confused manner that later genealogists were unable to follow his arguments, [footnote: 'Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae', 2 vols, Royal Historical Society, London, 1840-4, ii, pp cclxix-cclxxx; and see JR Planche, 'The Conqueror and his Companions', 2 vols, London, 1874, ii, 46, and GH White in 'The Genealogist', NS xxxvii (1921), p131.]. It was based on a charter of 1060, now available in modern edition, which mentions three Redvers brothers: Richard (who died in that year), William and Baldwin, [footnote: 'Recueil des Actes des Ducs de Normandie', ed M. Faroux, Caen, 1961, p328, no 147. The brothers' surname occurs only in the rubric.]. It was Stapleton's belief that this Baldwin was Richard's father, mainly on the grounds that Richard in turn named his eldest son Baldwin. This may seem inconclusive but the argument is given some support by Robert de Torigni in one of his interpolations in the Chronicle of William de Jumieges [pp 328-9]. Clearly the matter must be left in some doubt, but Stapleton's argument, unlike the others, is at least not based on errors and should therefore be preferred." [8]
   From an old 1996 SGM post of Todd Farmerie ("taf"), even before he knew who Keats-Rohan was.[9]
   
   The Genealogy of the founders of Carisbrook show this same Richard to be nephew of William Fitz Osbern, and thus it was hypothesized that Richard, the first English Redvers/Vernon, was son of William de Vernon and Emma Fitz Osbern, who in turn was daughter of Osbern de Bolbec [in a 2nd msg TAF corrected name to de Crepon] and Emma d'Ivry. However this parentage for Richard was disproven. This is reported in van Houtz article, Robert de Torigni as Genealogist, in Studies in Medieval History presented to R Allen Brown, and I have not had the time to track down her reference for the disproof.
   In a more complete discussion of the family in the article [by Keats-Rohan] Aspects of Robert de Torigny's Genealogies Revisited (in Nottingham Medieval Studies 27:21-7). This shows that in the generation prior to Richard, there is a Baldwin, a Richard who d.s.p., and their (presumed) brother William, son of Hugh (the author hypothesizes that William was either the youngest child of Hugh, or the only child, making Richard and Baldwin half-brothers). This last William appears identical to the William who married Emma, and had Hugh. The author calls her Emma Fitz Osbern, but this forgets that her identity as a Fitz Osbern depends on her identity as mother of Richard, which has been rejected (if he has other reasons, he [sic] does not give them). The author [Keats-Rohan] then hypothesizes that Richard (father of Earl Baldwin) and his brother Hugh are sons of Baldwin, and that this Baldwin is the same as the Baldwin de Redvers that Robert names as son of a daughter of Osmund de Centumuilliers, vicomte de Vernon (otherwise difficult to identify) by a niece of Duchess Gunnor.
   Now for my own speculation (entirely unsupported!). Either the first Baldwin de Redvers, in marrying a sister of William Fitz Osbern was within the prohibited degree (of which the Normans tended to be rather scrupulous) since his wife would be granddaughter of Gunnor's brother, and his mother was granddaughter of one of Gunnor's siblings, or else Robert has erred here. Could it be that there was only one relationship with Gunnor, that Richard was great-nephew of William Fitz Osbern, and that Baldwin's mother, was daughter of a nephew (Osbern de Crepon, son of Herfast, her brother) and not of a niece (the unnamed wife of Osmund)? One could even go a step more (if William, son of Hugh was in fact a half-brother), and suggest that Robert, in confusing Osmund with Osbert shuffled generations somewhat, and that Osmund de Centumuilliers married a great-niece of Gunnor, daughter of her nephew Osbert, and by him was mother of Baldwin (rather than him being maternal grandson).
   It could even be (I am speculating on the fly, without my references, but I suspect this version would stretch chronology too much, making William Fitz Osbern too much older than Richard) that Baldwin was maternal grandson of Osmund, and he in turn married the daughter of Osbert (Robert did have a tendancy to drop generations, as appears to have been the case in the Montgomery and Warenne connections to Gunnor).
   
   Sources
   ↑ Sanders, English Baronies, p.112 (Christchurch) and pp.137-138 (Plympton), including footnotes.
   ↑ 2.0 2.1 Keats-Rohan, (1997) "Aspects of Robert of Torigny's genealogies revisited", Nottingham Medieval Studies, p.25. pdf
   ↑ 3.0 3.1 Stapleton, (1844) Magni Rotuli Scaccarii Normanniae sub Regibus Angliae, Vol.2.
   ↑ Forester (H.G. Bohn, London, 1854) Page 216
   ↑ Loyd, Anglo-Norman families, p.85.
   ↑ Keats-Rohan, "Ricardus de Redvers", in Domesday People, pp.360-361.
   ↑ See the 2005 SGM post of Luke Potter.
   ↑ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jast/D0026/G0000005.html
   ↑ Farmerie SGM post. Also see his later post in 2005.
   

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