Ancestral Trails 2016 » IDA de TOENI (1156-1226)

Persoonlijke gegevens IDA de TOENI 

• Zij is geboren in het jaar 1156 in Flamstead, Hertfordshire.Bron 1

  Let op: Was jonger dan 16 jaar (14) toen kind (WILLIAM LONGESPEE) werd geboren (??-??-1170).

• Titel: Countess of Norfolk
• (Alternative Name Spelling) : de Tosnie, de Toesni.
• (Ancestry) : De Tosny/De Toeni Family.
• Zij is overleden op 7 maart 1226 in Norfolk, zij was toen 70 jaar oud.Bron 1
• Een kind van RALPH de TOENI en MARGARET BEAUMONT

Gezin van IDA de TOENI

(1) Zij is getrouwd met ROGER II BIGOD.

Zij zijn getrouwd in het jaar 1181 te Thetford, Norfolk, zij was toen 25 jaar oud.

Kind(eren):

1. Roger BIGOD  1190-????
2. Ralph BIGOD  1193-> 1214
3. Alice BIGOD  1188-> 1214
4. MARY BIGOD  1183-???? 
5. HUGH II BIGOD  1185-???? 
6. MARGARET BIGOD  1182-1237 

(2) Zij is getrouwd met HENRY II OF ENGLAND.

Zij zijn getrouwd te Not married.

Kind(eren):

1. WILLIAM LONGESPEE  1170-???? 

Notities over IDA de TOENI

Ida de Tosny, Countess of Norfolk (died after 1181), was very likely a daughter of Ralph V de Tosny (died 1162) and his wife Margaret (born circa 1125 and living in 1185), a daughter of Robert de Beaumont, 2nd Earl of Leicester.

Relationship to King Henry II
Ida de Tosny was a royal ward and mistress of Henry II, King of England, by whom she was mother of one of his illegitimate sons, William Longespée, 3rd Earl of Salisbury, (b c. 1176-March 7, 1226), as proven by the discovery of a charter of William mentioning "Comitissa Ida, mater mea" (Countess Ida, my mother). Ida was not the first English royal ward to be taken as a royal mistress. Isabel de Beaumont (Elizabeth de Beaumont), was the ward of King Henry I and the mistress of one of his sons.

Marriage
Around Christmas 1181, Ida de Tosny was given in marriage to Roger Bigod, 2nd Earl of Norfolk by Henry II, together with the manors of Acle, Halvergate and South Walsham, which had been confiscated from his inheritance after his father's death (Hugh Bigod, 1st Earl of Norfolk). Ida and Roger had a number of children including:

Hugh Bigod, 3rd Earl of Norfolk who married in 1206 or 1207, Maud Marshal, a daughter of William Marshal
William Bigod
Roger Bigod
John Bigod
Ralph Bigod
Mary Bigod, married Ralph fitz Robert
Margery Bigod, married William de Hastings
Ida Bigod

Many historians, including Marc Morris have speculated that the couple had a third daughter, Alice, who married Aubrey de Vere IV, 2nd Earl of Oxford as his second wife. However this is highly unlikely as the marriage would have been well within the bounds of consanguinity, for the couple would have been quite closely related, a daughter of the second earl of Norfolk being first cousin once removed to the second earl of Oxford.
SOURCE: Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_de_Tosny

Long known as simply Ida, she was a mistress of King Henry II, but later married Earl Roger Bigod. In a medieval document, William de Longespee (son of Henry II) mentions his mother "Countess Ida" which lead to educated speculation that she could only be Ida wife of Sir Roger Bigod, Earl of Norfolk.

In a recently published book, "The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the Thirteenth Century (by Marc Morris, Boydell, 2005) are shown sources which document that Ida was indeed Ida de Toeni. She is now believed to be the daughter of Sir Ralph de Toeni and his wife, Margaret de Beaumont. For information on this subject, see the thread Additional sources for Ida de Tosny on the soc.genealogy.medieval newslist....
SOURCE: http://www.geneajourney.com/toeni.html#noteg

"On May 22 Chris Phillips posted a notice about Marc Morris's new book, "The Bigod Earls of Norfolk in the Thirteenth Century" (Boydell, 2005). The book is now available and does provide sources to document that Ida, countess of Norfolk, wife of Roger Bigod I, and mother of William Longespee, was Ida de Tosny. On page 2 Morris says "Around Christmas 1181, at the start of his (Roger's) long road to (political) recovery, Roger married Ida de Tosny, a royal ward."

The records that he cites concern the manors of Acle, Halvergate, and South Walsham, which the king had confiscated after the death of Hugh Bigod I, and which went to Roger at the time of his marriage. Morris cites the following publications: "Rotuli Hundredorum (2 vols.), Record Commission, 1812-18, I, 504 (in which she is named as Ide le Tauny), 537 (in which she is named as Ida de Thoney); Pipe Rolls for Henry II, 23rd year, 125, 137; 24th year, 26-7; 28th year, 64. I have not had a chance to look at the Pipe Rolls.! ..."
Answer to the above posting "....But it hasn't yet been conclusively proved right, at least not in evidence posted to the newsgroup. Unless I have missed something, all we know so far is that someone twice identified as Ida de Tosny was said by jurors in a late-13th century Hundred Roll to have been given by the king to Roger Bigod along with three manors, and that she has been linked by Morris to a royal ward named Ida living 1181 who he concludes married Roger Bigod, later earl of Norfolk, at that time on the strength of his regaining by 1182 the three manors that had been confiscated from his father. Even if this is watertight - as I have at present no reason to dou doesn't tell us who the parents of Ida de Tosny were. The chronology is equally possible for her to have been the child of either Ralph & Margaret de Beaumont or of Roger & Ida of Hainaut. The only reason I can see for preferring the former, younger pair is that Countess Ida had a daughter called Margaret, but since the name was very common at the time this is hardly compelling...."
SOURCE:http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.medieval

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