Familienstammbaum Den Hollander en Van Dueren den Hollander » Irmgard van Namen (± 1040-1106)

Persönliche Daten Irmgard van Namen 

• Sie ist geboren rund 1040.
• Beruf: .
• Sie ist verstorben im Jahr 1106.
• Ein Kind von Albert II van Namen und Regilinde de Lorraine

Familie von Irmgard van Namen

Sie war verwandt mit Herman I van Malsen.

Kind(er):

1. Hendrik I van Malsen  ± 1061-< 1106 
2. Helwich van Malsen  ± 1070-> 1128 

Notizen bei Irmgard van Namen

#Générale##Générale#

{geni:about_me} The name of the spouse of Herman of Malsen is not mentioned in any primary or secundary source. Coldeweij supposed a marriage with a sister of Godfrey of Bouillon, but that hypotheses is rejected in more recent studies. Hans Vogels suggested in 2002 that she might have been a daughter of https://www.geni.com/people/Albert-II-Comte-de-Namur/6000000002043208985 and https://www.geni.com/people/Regilinde-of-Lorraine/6000000002043208992, and used the name Ermengarde as a working hypothesis, because that was the name of the mother of count Albert II of Namur. A summary of Hans Vogels' argumentation can be red in below [http://www.kareldegrote.nl/Excursiones/Excursio.php?Excurs=31KdG Excurs Lotharingen-Namen-Kuijc], which is published on [http://www.kareldegrote.nl/ KareldeGrote.nl], and which is based on contributions of Hans Vogels in the Yahoo group Middeleeuwse Genealogie (Medieval Genealogy):



It seems clear that Henry of Malsen/Cuijk, who married an Alveradis (probably of Hochstaden), has a Charlemagne descent seems obvious. He was present at the sale in 1096 by Ida of Lorraine, widow of count Eustace II of Boulogne, and her son Godfrey of Bouillon. On top of that Henry and Alveradis name their "eldest" son Godfrey.



This first name Godfrey is a name that cannot be explained from names occurring in his mother's ancestry. The possibility that Godfrey of Arnsberg would have been named after a younger uncle with the same name, lord Godfrey of Cuijk, provost of St. Severijn in Cologne, provost of Xanten, and elect-archbishop of Cologne (1131) would not be likely.



Earlier researchers have been occupied by the name Albert that occurs in yognger generations of the family of lords of Cuijk. Some hypothesized that Herman of Cuijk was married to a lady from the families of the counts of Namur, Durbuy, Laroche or Chiny, in families in which the name Albert was frequently occurring. A correct and reliable link of vis spouse is stil lacking. The name Albert has sent researchers into the wrong direction. Coldeweij came close to the logical solution but he failed to explore this path in his research further.



What is certain (Coldeweij pages 49-50) is that in 1193 four candidates for the position of bishop were supported by count Baldwin of Hainaut and Namur: Albert of Réthel, Albert of Cuijk, Otto of Valkenburg and Hugo of Pierpont. All four of them were related to count Baldwin, but Albert of Réthel was more closely related as he was a first cousin of count Baldwin.



When we look at the ancestry of all involved relatives then a descendence from the counts of Namur appears to be the red line connecting them. Not yet for all, but at least for Baldwin, Albert of Réthel and Hugo of Pierpont. The latter was a son of Hugo of Pierrepont, + ca. 1188 and Clementia of Réthel, daughter of Gouthier of Réthel, + 1148 and of Beatrice of Namur, + 1160, daughter of count Godfrey of Namurand his second wife Ermesince of Luxembourg. Above mentioned Albert of Réthel was a son of Gouthier and Beatrice as well. Count Baldwin of Hainaut and Namur was a son of Baldwin IV of Hainaut, + 1171 and Adelheid of Namur, + 1168, a couple that married ca. 1130 (or 1125). Adelheid of Namur was the youngest daughter of count Godfrey of Namur.



Hence count Baldwin of Hainaut and Namur and Albert of Réthel were first cousins, both grandsons of Godfrey of Namur. And Hugo of Pierpont was a first cousin once removed of count Baldwin. Even the lords of Cuijk and the counts of Namur were connected as Coldeweij states somewhere else in his book (pages 154-157). Coldeweij supposes that the allodial goods bordering the city of Namur and in Champion (near Namur) that were held by the lords of Cuijk were brought into the family as a dowry of the spouse of Herman of Cuijk. But Coldeweij assumed a Herman of Cuijk that married a lady from the family of the counts of Namur around 1130. His son Albert of Cuik was bishop of Liège from 1195 to 1200.



Since Albert of Cuijk, bishop of Liège, was from the same generation as count Baldwin of Hainaut and Namur their relationship must have been less close as that of the count and his first cousin Albert of Réthel. It is unlikely that the mother of Albert of Cuijk was a maternal aunt of count Baldwin because in that case Albert would have mentioned him as being his "consobrinus". Since the lords of Cuijk possessed allodial goods in Namur at a later stage it seems likely that the family relationship must been via the counts of Namur. Therefore there is no need to explore a relationship via the counts of Laroche, Durbuy or Chiny. The dowry for such a marriage of a lord of Cuijk would have resulted in allodial goods elsewhere and not in Namur itself.



Given the above argumentation, the mother of Albert of Cuijk could not have been a lady from the family of the counts of Namur. His grandmother Alverade (possibly a von Hochstaden) clearly has a "German" ancestry, as has been pointed out in the publication of Henk Verdonk about her (brochure 12 Alverade van Kuyc (1108-1131) en haar verwantschap, Lelystad 1999). Therefore one can only conclude that the link with the counts of Namur must be sought one generation further up the family tree. The spouse of Herman of Malsen must have been a lady from the house of the counts of Namur.



In Gens Nostra 1991 (nr. 11/12, the second part of the Charlemagne issue, page. 364/684) it is stated that count Albert II of Namur was mentioned on 10 August 1035 together with his wife Regelindis of Lorraine, and his son Albert III (his first mentioning, when he was still a minor). Given the theory of Klaversma we can suppose that Albert III had just reached the age of 7 years in 1035. This gives him a birth year of 1028 or earlier. Albert III died on 22 June 1102. His marriage to Ida of Saxony is supposed to have taken place in 1066/1067. Given his first mentioning in 1035 the Working committee "Middeleeuwse Vorsten Kwartieren" (Medieval royal ancestry) of the NGV indicated this marriage as "probably a second marriage". But except for his high age there are no other indications for an earlier marriage.



Several children were born from the marriage of Herman of Malsen: his successor Henry, a daughter (possibly with the name Heilwig) that married in or shortly before 1096 with Arnold of Rode, Andreas of Cuijk who was bishop of Utrecht from 1128 to 1139 and a Godfrey of Cuijk who died after 1134. Andreas of Cuijk started his clergical carreer in Liège! He was probably the same person as an archdeacon who was mentioned in 1095. In 1096 he probably was archdeacon of the Kempen. That was a function that required a minimum age of 20 years. Therefore Andreas must have been born no later than 1075. The start of his carreer in Liège can easily be explained by his mother's ancestry. The name Godfrey for his younger brother and for Herman of Malsen's eldest grandson Godfrey of Arnsberg was already discussed. These names and the name of count Godfrey of Namur were derived from the descendence of the counts of Namur from the house of the Ardennes, the dukes of Lower Lorraine. Godfrey of Bouillon also descended from this family. This descendence from the dukes of Lorraine forms a logical explanation for the presence of Henry of Cuijk and his brother-in-law Arnold of Rode at the sale in 1096.



Hence Herman of Malsen must have married a daughter of a count of Namur. But he did not have a son with the name Albert, at least as far as we know. But a son with that name could have died as a child or could have chosen a clergical carreer that kept his ancestry hidden. Coldeweij supposes that the marriage of Herman van Malsen must have taken place around 1070. As far as I can see it is more likely that it took place around 1065/1070, because a timeframe of 5 years between 1070 and 1075 seems a bit to narrow for a son Henry, a hypothetical son Albert, a son Andreas and possibly a daughter who was already married in 1096. Herman's wife must have had an age of 20 years herself around 1065/1070. Since there are no indications for an earlier marriage of count Albert III of Namur, this lady from the family of the counts of Namur must have been a daughter of count Albert II of Namur and his wife Regelindis of Lorraine. Her name is not known, but she might have been named [Ermengard] after the mother of count Albert II. Let's stick with this hypothesis for now.

Irmgard Van NAMEN. Aangezien er geen aanwijzingen zijn voor een eerder huwelijk van graaf Albert III van Namen, moet deze Namense echtgenote een dochter zijn geweest van graaf Albert II van Namen en diens echtgenote Regelindis van Lotharingen. Haar naam is niet bekend maar wellicht heeft ze [Ermengard] geheten naar de moeder van graaf Albert II. Een zoon met naam Albert ontbreekt echter tussen haar kinderen. Deze kan echter als kind zijn overleden of een geestelijke loopbaan hebben gekozen waarbij zijn afkomst onbekend is gebleven.

Irmgard Van NAMEN. Aangezien er geen aanwijzingen zijn voor een eerder huwelijk van graaf Albert III van Namen, moet deze Namense echtgenote een dochter zijn geweest van graaf Albert II van Namen en diens echtgenote Regelindis van Lotharingen. Haar naam is niet bekend maar wellicht heeft ze [Ermengard] geheten naar de moeder van graaf Albert II. Een zoon met naam Albert ontbreekt echter tussen haar kinderen. Deze kan echter als kind zijn overleden of een geestelijke loopbaan hebben gekozen waarbij zijn afkomst onbekend is gebleven.

Irmgard Van NAMEN. Aangezien er geen aanwijzingen zijn voor een eerder huwelijk van graaf Albert III van Namen, moet deze Namense echtgenote een dochter zijn geweest van graaf Albert II van Namen en diens echtgenote Regelindis van Lotharingen. Haar naam is niet bekend maar wellicht heeft ze [Ermengard] geheten naar de moeder van graaf Albert II. Een zoon met naam Albert ontbreekt echter tussen haar kinderen. Deze kan echter als kind zijn overleden of een geestelijke loopbaan hebben gekozen waarbij zijn afkomst onbekend is gebleven.

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