Stambomen Koé-Muller » Bégon I comte de Paris marquis de Septimanie de Paris (de Toulouse) (± 765-816)

Persönliche Daten Bégon I comte de Paris marquis de Septimanie de Paris (de Toulouse) 


Familie von Bégon I comte de Paris marquis de Septimanie de Paris (de Toulouse)

Er ist verheiratet mit Alpaïs de Paris Abbesse de St-Pierre de Reims de Paris.

Sie haben geheiratet.


Kind(er):


  • Das Paar hat gemeinsame Vorfahren.

    • Notizen bei Bégon I comte de Paris marquis de Septimanie de Paris (de Toulouse)

    MEER VOOROUDERS
    https://www.genealogieonline.nl/stamboom-van-elderen-en-van-der-speld/I3736.php

    https://www.genealogieonline.nl/stamboom-schols/I66172.php
    http://gw.geneanet.org/jmpiresechehaye?lang=nl&pz=jean+marie+joseph+germain&nz=pire&ocz=0&p=audran+1er&n=di+friuli

    Patrimonium Audran 1er di Friuli

    http://www.geni.com/people/B%C3%A9gon-comte-de-Paris-marquis-de-Septimanie/5475229225590045386?through=6000000002576754400

    Bégon de Paris, Comte de Paris MP
    Begraafplaats:Paris, Seine, Ile de France, France
    Geboren:750
    Paris, Seine, France
    Overleden:28 Oktober 816 (66)
    Paris,Seine,,France
    Naaste Familie:
    Son of Gérard I, count of Paris en Rotrou d'Austrasie
    Husband of Alpaïs de Paris, Abbesse de St-Pierre de Reims en Withburgis de Paris
    Father of Eberhard I de Paris, comte de Logenahe; Landrée de Paris; Leuthard II, count of Paris; Susanne of Paris de Paris; Engeltrude of Paris en 4 anderen
    Brother of Étienne de Paris; Leuthard I, count of Fézensac; Ava / Bava de Morvois; Audran van Friuli en Berenger di Fruili, Count of Paris

    The Problem of Count Begue & his 3 possible wives

    Discussion

    Count Begue/Beggo/ Begon has 2 (or 3) equally likely wives according to original sources – but only one set of descendents (Luithard, Eberhard, Susanna):

    Either his wife (and mother of these 3 kids) was Charlemagne’s daughter:

    1) Alpaida (by Adaltrude) Sources below, or

    2) Amaudra (by Himiltrude) - less convincingly sourced than the other two, at the moment -Reference to her mother on Die Genealogie der Franken und Frankreichs, noted by Wikipedia, says she later married a Count of Paris.

    or she was Charlemagne’s granddaughter:

    3) Alpais (through his son, Louis I) Sources Below

    Sources: From Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands database

    BEGO ([755/60]-28 Oct 816).

    m firstly ---. There is no proof of this possible first marriage of Bego. However, as noted below, if his wife Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, there would have been a considerable age difference between her and Bego, which suggests the possibility of an earlier marriage.]

    m [secondly] ([806]) ALPAIS, illegitimate daughter of [Emperor LOUIS I & his mistress ---] ([793/94]-23 Jul 852 or after, bur [Reims]). Flodoard refers to "Ludowicus Alpheidi filie sue uxori Begonis comitis"[67]. The Annales Hildesheimenses name "filiam imperatoris…Elpheid" as the wife of "Bicgo de amici regis" when recording the death of her husband[68]. Settipani discusses the debate about the paternity of Alpais, preferring the theory that Emperor Charles I was her father[69]. If Emperor Louis was her father, it is unlikely that she was born before [793/94], given his known birth date in 778. It would therefore be chronologically tight for her to have had [three] children by her husband before his death in 816.

    [Sharon’s Note: Not really – it makes her 23yrs old when he dies. Charlemagne’s wife Hildegard had had 9 children by the time she died at 23 or 24yrs]

    However, no indication has been found in primary sources of the ages of these children when their father died. The question of her paternity is obviously not beyond doubt, but it is felt preferable to show her as the probable daughter of Emperor Louis in view of the clear statement in Flodoard. If Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, it is likely that she was not her husband's only wife in view of his estimated birth date. After her husband died, she became abbess of Saint-Pierre-le-Bas at Reims in [817]. She was still there 29 May 852.

    Bego & his [second] wife had three children: i) LIUTHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[70]. ii) EBERHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[71]. iii) SUSANNA ([805/10]-). The primary source which establishes that Susanna was the daughter of Bego has not so far been identified. "Vulfardus" donated property to Saint-Benoît-sur-Loire for the souls of "genitoris mei Vulfardi et genetrice mea Susannane necnon et germanorum fratrum meorum Adelardo, Vulgrino, Ymo et sorore mee Hildeburga vel nepote meo Vulgrino" by charter dated 2 Nov 889[72]. m ([825/30]) VULFHARD, son of ---.

    STATUS OF DEBATE by Justin, Pam, Ben, Sharon Jan 2011 The 10th Century chronicler, Flodoard is a primary source, while both Cawley and Settipani are secondary sources - presenting conflicting conclusions. Settipani (arguing for Charlemagne's daughter), contradicts Flodoard (arguing for Louis' daughter), based on consideration of other primary sources (which we haven't found). Cawley appears to be most likely to dominate because, although Settipani's conclusions are possibly more accurate, Cawley is more available to Geni users on the net.

    Sharon's STRATEGIC SOLUTION WAS TO INSERT BEGUE in ALL 3 POSITIONS, & TRY TO USE THE CURATOR NOTE TO AVOID MERGES BETWEEN THEM.

    STATUS OF DEBATE by Justin, Sharon; George June 2012: Over the past year, despite being locked, the profiles have been merged into each other - suggesting this was not a workable strategy. George IS WORKING ON AN ALTERNATIVE STRATEGY:

    --------------------------------

    Wikipedia:

    Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    * Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris
    * Eberhard
    * Landrade
    * Susanna
    * Engeltrude
    --------------------

    From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps05/ps05_126.htm

    Begue was Chamberlain of Louis of Aquitaine in 776. He is also known as Bego II.

    References: [RFC],[AR7]

    --------------------

    Beggan (Bego) Count of Paris1,2

    b. between 755 and 760, d. 28 October 816, #29459

    FatherGirard Count of Paris3 b. before 745, d. circa 755

    MotherRotrude of Austrasia3 b. circa 734

    Family 1Williburga d. before 789

    Child 1.Engeltrude or Engeltron+ b. c 78212

    Family 2Alpais b. circa 790, d. 29 May 852

    Children 1.Count Eberhard of Paris+ b. c 800, d. b 83217

    2.Susanna+ b. b 81618
    3.Landrée de Paris+ b. c 8164
    Children of this marriage are often given as: Eberhard, Leuthard, Engeltron (F) and Suzanna.

    The main difference from Werner's reconstruction is that

    Hlawitschka has Susanna as the child of Bego by a first marriage and not by Alpais. That Bego had such a marriage is highly likely since he was 45/50 by the time of his marriage with Alpais. It is also certain that Susanna was Bego's daughter. If Susanna had been the daughter of Alpais then the marriage of Susanna's granddaughter, Adelheid, to Louis the Stammerer would have been within the prohibited degrees (4:2 through Louis the Pious).

    --------------------

    Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married either Amaudru, illegitimate daughter of Charlemagne or her niece, Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris Eberhard Landrade Susanna Engeltrude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggo,_Count_of_Toulouse -------------------- http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9gon_de_Paris

    Bégon de Paris

    Bégon de Paris (v. 755/760-28 octobre 816) comte de Paris, comte de Toulouse et marquis de Septimanie (Maison des Girardides).

    Biographie[modifier]
    Bégon[1] est le fils du comte Gérard Ier de Paris. Il a pour frères les comtes Étienne de Paris (v.754 - † 811/815) et Leuthard Ier de Paris († vers 813).

    Vers 806, il épouse Alpaïs[2](793/794 - † 23 juillet 852 ou après), laquelle est soit une fille de l'empereur Louis le Pieux soit une fille illégitime de Charlemagne. Il a les enfants suivants :

    Le futur comte Leuthard II de Paris Eberhard probablement Landrade, qui épouse le comte Donat Ier de Melun (v.790 - † ap.858/av.871)[3], et ont comme enfants[4] : Gosselin (ou Gozlin), comte de Bassigny ; Gontier ; Hugues ; Waltrude ; Robert, évêque du Mans ; Boson ; Suzanne qui épouse le comte Vulfard de Flavigny avec lequel elle a pour enfants : Le futur archevêque Vulfard de Bourges (liste des archevêques de Bourges) Le futur comte Vulgrin Ier d'Angoulême Le futur comte Adalhard de Paris (vers 830 - † ap. 890), père d'Adélaïde de Frioul, reine de France par mariage avec le roi Louis II de France. Hilduin, abbé de l'abbaye de Saint-Denis Ymo ou Immo Hildeburge Il est nommé chambrier du roi Louis d'Aquitaine (et futur empereur d'Occident 814-840, fils de Charlemagne).

    À partir de 806, il devient comte de Toulouse et marquis de Septimanie dont il contrôle la marche en remplacement de Guillaume de Gellone.

    En 815, il succède à son frère Étienne de Paris au titre de comte de Paris et contribue à la prospérité de l'abbaye Saint-Pierre-du-Fossé.

    Il meurt le 28 octobre 816. Son frère Leuthard Ier de Paris lui succède comme comte de Paris.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggo_of_Paris

    Beggo, Count of Toulouse

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Beggo of Paris) Jump to: navigation, search Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married either Amaudru, illegitimate daughter of Charlemagne or her niece, Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris
    Eberhard
    Landrade
    Susanna
    Engeltrude
    --------------------

    -------------------- Count Begue de Paris [Parents] was born about 760 in Paris, Île-de-France, France. He died in 816. He married Aupais Caroling about 777 in Paris, Île-de-France, France.

    [Notes] Aupais Caroling [Parents] was born about 760 in Paris, Île-de-France, France. She married Count Begue de Paris about 777 in Paris, Île-de-France, France.

    [Notes] They had the following children:

    M i Count Leotaud de Paris Caroling F ii Engeltron de Paris
    Fuente: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~greenefamily/lape/pafg461.htm#77431 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . Ancestral File

    name:

    Begue of Paris Count

    gender: Male

    birth: ABT 738 Paris,,FRANCE

    death: 816

    AFN: 2W27-SCH

    Parents

    father: Girard of Paris (AFN: 2W30-GXF )

    mother: Rotrou (AFN: 2W30-H11 )

    Marriages (1)

    spouse: Alpais (AFN: 2W27-SJJ )

    children (5)

    child 1:

    Adalhard of Paris Count (AFN: 2W27-S7N )

    gender: Male

    BIRTH ABT 827 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 2:

    Leutaud of Paris Count (AFN: 2W26-511 )

    gender: Male

    BIRTH ABT 768 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 3:

    Engeltrude of Paris (AFN: 2W30-GRD )

    gender: Female

    BIRTH ABT 760 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 4:

    Lisiard Count (AFN: 2W2Z-94H )

    gender: Male

    child 5:

    Laundree of Paris (AFN: 2W34-LP7 )

    gender: Female

    BIRTH ABT 784

    Submitters (1)

    submitter: wdprince2660777

    Source Citation

    "Ancestral File v4.19," database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9MY4-MX3 : accessed 29 August 2012), entry for Begue of Paris Count.

    --------------------

    Reference Sources

    1) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SGVV-GPN : accessed 2013-05-24), entry for Alpaide the Carolingien /D'aquitaine/.

    2) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SGVV-LRV : accessed 2013-05-24), entry for Beggon or Begon /De Paris/. -------------------- http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p323.htm#i9700

    -------------------- The Problem of Count Begue & his 3 possible wives

    Discussion

    Count Begue/Beggo/ Begon has 2 (or 3) equally likely wives according to original sources – but only one set of descendents (Luithard, Eberhard, Susanna):

    Either his wife (and mother of these 3 kids) was Charlemagne’s daughter:

    1) Alpaida (by Adaltrude) Sources below, or

    2) Amaudra (by Himiltrude) - less convincingly sourced than the other two, at the moment -Reference to her mother on Die Genealogie der Franken und Frankreichs, noted by Wikipedia, says she later married a Count of Paris.

    or she was Charlemagne’s granddaughter:

    3) Alpais (through his son, Louis I) Sources Below

    Sources: From Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands database

    BEGO ([755/60]-28 Oct 816).

    m firstly ---. There is no proof of this possible first marriage of Bego. However, as noted below, if his wife Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, there would have been a considerable age difference between her and Bego, which suggests the possibility of an earlier marriage.]

    m [secondly] ([806]) ALPAIS, illegitimate daughter of [Emperor LOUIS I & his mistress ---] ([793/94]-23 Jul 852 or after, bur [Reims]). Flodoard refers to "Ludowicus Alpheidi filie sue uxori Begonis comitis"[67]. The Annales Hildesheimenses name "filiam imperatoris…Elpheid" as the wife of "Bicgo de amici regis" when recording the death of her husband[68]. Settipani discusses the debate about the paternity of Alpais, preferring the theory that Emperor Charles I was her father[69]. If Emperor Louis was her father, it is unlikely that she was born before [793/94], given his known birth date in 778. It would therefore be chronologically tight for her to have had [three] children by her husband before his death in 816.

    [Sharon’s Note: Not really – it makes her 23yrs old when he dies. Charlemagne’s wife Hildegard had had 9 children by the time she died at 23 or 24yrs]

    However, no indication has been found in primary sources of the ages of these children when their father died. The question of her paternity is obviously not beyond doubt, but it is felt preferable to show her as the probable daughter of Emperor Louis in view of the clear statement in Flodoard. If Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, it is likely that she was not her husband's only wife in view of his estimated birth date. After her husband died, she became abbess of Saint-Pierre-le-Bas at Reims in [817]. She was still there 29 May 852.

    Bego & his [second] wife had three children: i) LIUTHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[70]. ii) EBERHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[71]. iii) SUSANNA ([805/10]-). The primary source which establishes that Susanna was the daughter of Bego has not so far been identified. "Vulfardus" donated property to Saint-Benoît-sur-Loire for the souls of "genitoris mei Vulfardi et genetrice mea Susannane necnon et germanorum fratrum meorum Adelardo, Vulgrino, Ymo et sorore mee Hildeburga vel nepote meo Vulgrino" by charter dated 2 Nov 889[72]. m ([825/30]) VULFHARD, son of ---.

    STATUS OF DEBATE by Justin, Pam, Ben, Sharon Jan 2011 The 10th Century chronicler, Flodoard is a primary source, while both Cawley and Settipani are secondary sources - presenting conflicting conclusions. Settipani (arguing for Charlemagne's daughter), contradicts Flodoard (arguing for Louis' daughter), based on consideration of other primary sources (which we haven't found). Cawley appears to be most likely to dominate because, although Settipani's conclusions are possibly more accurate, Cawley is more available to Geni users on the net.

    Sharon's STRATEGIC SOLUTION WAS TO INSERT BEGUE in ALL 3 POSITIONS, & TRY TO USE THE CURATOR NOTE TO AVOID MERGES BETWEEN THEM.

    STATUS OF DEBATE by Justin, Sharon; George June 2012: Over the past year, despite being locked, the profiles have been merged into each other - suggesting this was not a workable strategy. George IS WORKING ON AN ALTERNATIVE STRATEGY:

    --------------------------------

    Wikipedia:

    Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris
    Eberhard
    Landrade
    Susanna
    Engeltrude
    --------------------

    From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps05/ps05_126.htm

    Begue was Chamberlain of Louis of Aquitaine in 776. He is also known as Bego II.

    References: [RFC],[AR7]

    --------------------

    Beggan (Bego) Count of Paris1,2

    b. between 755 and 760, d. 28 October 816, #29459

    FatherGirard Count of Paris3 b. before 745, d. circa 755

    MotherRotrude of Austrasia3 b. circa 734

    Family 1Williburga d. before 789

    Child 1.Engeltrude or Engeltron+ b. c 78212

    Family 2Alpais b. circa 790, d. 29 May 852

    Children 1.Count Eberhard of Paris+ b. c 800, d. b 83217

    2.Susanna+ b. b 81618 3.Landrée de Paris+ b. c 8164 Children of this marriage are often given as: Eberhard, Leuthard, Engeltron (F) and Suzanna.

    The main difference from Werner's reconstruction is that

    Hlawitschka has Susanna as the child of Bego by a first marriage and not by Alpais. That Bego had such a marriage is highly likely since he was 45/50 by the time of his marriage with Alpais. It is also certain that Susanna was Bego's daughter. If Susanna had been the daughter of Alpais then the marriage of Susanna's granddaughter, Adelheid, to Louis the Stammerer would have been within the prohibited degrees (4:2 through Louis the Pious).

    --------------------

    Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married either Amaudru, illegitimate daughter of Charlemagne or her niece, Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris Eberhard Landrade Susanna Engeltrude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggo,_Count_of_Toulouse -------------------- http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9gon_de_Paris

    Bégon de Paris

    Bégon de Paris (v. 755/760-28 octobre 816) comte de Paris, comte de Toulouse et marquis de Septimanie (Maison des Girardides).

    Biographie[modifier] Bégon[1] est le fils du comte Gérard Ier de Paris. Il a pour frères les comtes Étienne de Paris (v.754 - † 811/815) et Leuthard Ier de Paris († vers 813).

    Vers 806, il épouse Alpaïs[2](793/794 - † 23 juillet 852 ou après), laquelle est soit une fille de l'empereur Louis le Pieux soit une fille illégitime de Charlemagne. Il a les enfants suivants :

    Le futur comte Leuthard II de Paris Eberhard probablement Landrade, qui épouse le comte Donat Ier de Melun (v.790 - † ap.858/av.871)[3], et ont comme enfants[4] : Gosselin (ou Gozlin), comte de Bassigny ; Gontier ; Hugues ; Waltrude ; Robert, évêque du Mans ; Boson ; Suzanne qui épouse le comte Vulfard de Flavigny avec lequel elle a pour enfants : Le futur archevêque Vulfard de Bourges (liste des archevêques de Bourges) Le futur comte Vulgrin Ier d'Angoulême Le futur comte Adalhard de Paris (vers 830 - † ap. 890), père d'Adélaïde de Frioul, reine de France par mariage avec le roi Louis II de France. Hilduin, abbé de l'abbaye de Saint-Denis Ymo ou Immo Hildeburge Il est nommé chambrier du roi Louis d'Aquitaine (et futur empereur d'Occident 814-840, fils de Charlemagne).

    À partir de 806, il devient comte de Toulouse et marquis de Septimanie dont il contrôle la marche en remplacement de Guillaume de Gellone.

    En 815, il succède à son frère Étienne de Paris au titre de comte de Paris et contribue à la prospérité de l'abbaye Saint-Pierre-du-Fossé.

    Il meurt le 28 octobre 816. Son frère Leuthard Ier de Paris lui succède comme comte de Paris.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggo_of_Paris

    Beggo, Count of Toulouse

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Beggo of Paris) Jump to: navigation, search Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married either Amaudru, illegitimate daughter of Charlemagne or her niece, Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris Eberhard Landrade Susanna Engeltrude --------------------

    -------------------- Count Begue de Paris [Parents] was born about 760 in Paris, Île-de-France, France. He died in 816. He married Aupais Caroling about 777 in Paris, Île-de-France, France.

    [Notes] Aupais Caroling [Parents] was born about 760 in Paris, Île-de-France, France. She married Count Begue de Paris about 777 in Paris, Île-de-France, France.

    [Notes] They had the following children:

    M i Count Leotaud de Paris Caroling F ii Engeltron de Paris Fuente: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~greenefamily/lape/pafg461.htm#77431 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . Ancestral File

    name:

    Begue of Paris Count

    gender: Male

    birth: ABT 738 Paris,,FRANCE

    death: 816

    AFN: 2W27-SCH

    Parents

    father: Girard of Paris (AFN: 2W30-GXF )

    mother: Rotrou (AFN: 2W30-H11 )

    Marriages (1)

    spouse: Alpais (AFN: 2W27-SJJ )

    children (5)

    child 1:

    Adalhard of Paris Count (AFN: 2W27-S7N )

    gender: Male

    BIRTH ABT 827 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 2:

    Leutaud of Paris Count (AFN: 2W26-511 )

    gender: Male

    BIRTH ABT 768 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 3:

    Engeltrude of Paris (AFN: 2W30-GRD )

    gender: Female

    BIRTH ABT 760 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 4:

    Lisiard Count (AFN: 2W2Z-94H )

    gender: Male

    child 5:

    Laundree of Paris (AFN: 2W34-LP7 )

    gender: Female

    BIRTH ABT 784

    Submitters (1)

    submitter: wdprince2660777

    Source Citation

    "Ancestral File v4.19," database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9MY4-MX3 : accessed 29 August 2012), entry for Begue of Paris Count.

    --------------------

    Reference Sources

    1) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SGVV-GPN : accessed 2013-05-24), entry for Alpaide the Carolingien /D'aquitaine/.

    2) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SGVV-LRV : accessed 2013-05-24), entry for Beggon or Begon /De Paris/. -------------------- http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p323.htm#i9700

    read more -------------------- The Problem of Count Begue & his 3 possible wives

    Discussion

    Count Begue/Beggo/ Begon has 2 (or 3) equally likely wives according to original sources – but only one set of descendents (Luithard, Eberhard, Susanna):

    Either his wife (and mother of these 3 kids) was Charlemagne’s daughter:

    1) Alpaida (by Adaltrude) Sources below, or

    2) Amaudra (by Himiltrude) - less convincingly sourced than the other two, at the moment -Reference to her mother on Die Genealogie der Franken und Frankreichs, noted by Wikipedia, says she later married a Count of Paris.

    or she was Charlemagne’s granddaughter:

    3) Alpais (through his son, Louis I) Sources Below

    Sources: From Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands database

    BEGO ([755/60]-28 Oct 816).

    m firstly ---. There is no proof of this possible first marriage of Bego. However, as noted below, if his wife Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, there would have been a considerable age difference between her and Bego, which suggests the possibility of an earlier marriage.]

    m [secondly] ([806]) ALPAIS, illegitimate daughter of [Emperor LOUIS I & his mistress ---] ([793/94]-23 Jul 852 or after, bur [Reims]). Flodoard refers to "Ludowicus Alpheidi filie sue uxori Begonis comitis"[67]. The Annales Hildesheimenses name "filiam imperatoris…Elpheid" as the wife of "Bicgo de amici regis" when recording the death of her husband[68]. Settipani discusses the debate about the paternity of Alpais, preferring the theory that Emperor Charles I was her father[69]. If Emperor Louis was her father, it is unlikely that she was born before [793/94], given his known birth date in 778. It would therefore be chronologically tight for her to have had [three] children by her husband before his death in 816.

    [Sharon’s Note: Not really – it makes her 23yrs old when he dies. Charlemagne’s wife Hildegard had had 9 children by the time she died at 23 or 24yrs]

    However, no indication has been found in primary sources of the ages of these children when their father died. The question of her paternity is obviously not beyond doubt, but it is felt preferable to show her as the probable daughter of Emperor Louis in view of the clear statement in Flodoard. If Alpais was the daughter of Emperor Louis, it is likely that she was not her husband's only wife in view of his estimated birth date. After her husband died, she became abbess of Saint-Pierre-le-Bas at Reims in [817]. She was still there 29 May 852.

    Bego & his [second] wife had three children: i) LIUTHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[70]. ii) EBERHARD . Flodoard names "ipsius Alpheidis vel filiorum eius Letardi et Ebrardi" when recording their mother's donation to the church of Reims[71]. iii) SUSANNA ([805/10]-). The primary source which establishes that Susanna was the daughter of Bego has not so far been identified. "Vulfardus" donated property to Saint-Benoît-sur-Loire for the souls of "genitoris mei Vulfardi et genetrice mea Susannane necnon et germanorum fratrum meorum Adelardo, Vulgrino, Ymo et sorore mee Hildeburga vel nepote meo Vulgrino" by charter dated 2 Nov 889[72]. m ([825/30]) VULFHARD, son of ---.

    STATUS OF DEBATE by Justin, Pam, Ben, Sharon Jan 2011 The 10th Century chronicler, Flodoard is a primary source, while both Cawley and Settipani are secondary sources - presenting conflicting conclusions. Settipani (arguing for Charlemagne's daughter), contradicts Flodoard (arguing for Louis' daughter), based on consideration of other primary sources (which we haven't found). Cawley appears to be most likely to dominate because, although Settipani's conclusions are possibly more accurate, Cawley is more available to Geni users on the net.

    Sharon's STRATEGIC SOLUTION WAS TO INSERT BEGUE in ALL 3 POSITIONS, & TRY TO USE THE CURATOR NOTE TO AVOID MERGES BETWEEN THEM.

    STATUS OF DEBATE by Justin, Sharon; George June 2012: Over the past year, despite being locked, the profiles have been merged into each other - suggesting this was not a workable strategy. George IS WORKING ON AN ALTERNATIVE STRATEGY:

    --------------------------------

    Wikipedia:

    Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris
    Eberhard
    Landrade
    Susanna
    Engeltrude
    --------------------

    From http://www.rpi.edu/~holmes/Hobbies/Genealogy/ps05/ps05_126.htm

    Begue was Chamberlain of Louis of Aquitaine in 776. He is also known as Bego II.

    References: [RFC],[AR7]

    --------------------

    Beggan (Bego) Count of Paris1,2

    b. between 755 and 760, d. 28 October 816, #29459

    FatherGirard Count of Paris3 b. before 745, d. circa 755

    MotherRotrude of Austrasia3 b. circa 734

    Family 1Williburga d. before 789

    Child 1.Engeltrude or Engeltron+ b. c 78212

    Family 2Alpais b. circa 790, d. 29 May 852

    Children 1.Count Eberhard of Paris+ b. c 800, d. b 83217

    2.Susanna+ b. b 81618 3.Landrée de Paris+ b. c 8164 Children of this marriage are often given as: Eberhard, Leuthard, Engeltron (F) and Suzanna.

    The main difference from Werner's reconstruction is that

    Hlawitschka has Susanna as the child of Bego by a first marriage and not by Alpais. That Bego had such a marriage is highly likely since he was 45/50 by the time of his marriage with Alpais. It is also certain that Susanna was Bego's daughter. If Susanna had been the daughter of Alpais then the marriage of Susanna's granddaughter, Adelheid, to Louis the Stammerer would have been within the prohibited degrees (4:2 through Louis the Pious).

    --------------------

    Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married either Amaudru, illegitimate daughter of Charlemagne or her niece, Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris Eberhard Landrade Susanna Engeltrude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggo,_Count_of_Toulouse -------------------- http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9gon_de_Paris

    Bégon de Paris

    Bégon de Paris (v. 755/760-28 octobre 816) comte de Paris, comte de Toulouse et marquis de Septimanie (Maison des Girardides).

    Biographie[modifier] Bégon[1] est le fils du comte Gérard Ier de Paris. Il a pour frères les comtes Étienne de Paris (v.754 - † 811/815) et Leuthard Ier de Paris († vers 813).

    Vers 806, il épouse Alpaïs[2](793/794 - † 23 juillet 852 ou après), laquelle est soit une fille de l'empereur Louis le Pieux soit une fille illégitime de Charlemagne. Il a les enfants suivants :

    Le futur comte Leuthard II de Paris Eberhard probablement Landrade, qui épouse le comte Donat Ier de Melun (v.790 - † ap.858/av.871)[3], et ont comme enfants[4] : Gosselin (ou Gozlin), comte de Bassigny ; Gontier ; Hugues ; Waltrude ; Robert, évêque du Mans ; Boson ; Suzanne qui épouse le comte Vulfard de Flavigny avec lequel elle a pour enfants : Le futur archevêque Vulfard de Bourges (liste des archevêques de Bourges) Le futur comte Vulgrin Ier d'Angoulême Le futur comte Adalhard de Paris (vers 830 - † ap. 890), père d'Adélaïde de Frioul, reine de France par mariage avec le roi Louis II de France. Hilduin, abbé de l'abbaye de Saint-Denis Ymo ou Immo Hildeburge Il est nommé chambrier du roi Louis d'Aquitaine (et futur empereur d'Occident 814-840, fils de Charlemagne).

    À partir de 806, il devient comte de Toulouse et marquis de Septimanie dont il contrôle la marche en remplacement de Guillaume de Gellone.

    En 815, il succède à son frère Étienne de Paris au titre de comte de Paris et contribue à la prospérité de l'abbaye Saint-Pierre-du-Fossé.

    Il meurt le 28 octobre 816. Son frère Leuthard Ier de Paris lui succède comme comte de Paris.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggo_of_Paris

    Beggo, Count of Toulouse

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from Beggo of Paris) Jump to: navigation, search Beggo (died 816) was the son of Gerard I of Paris and Rotrude, daughter of Carloman, son of Charles Martel. He was appointed Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March in 806 and followed his father as Count of Paris in 815.

    In 806, William of Gellone abdicated and Charlemagne appointed Beggo to take his place in Toulouse and Gothia. He did not succeed his father in Paris, but was later placed in the comital office there, but did not live long after that.

    He married either Amaudru, illegitimate daughter of Charlemagne or her niece, Alpais, illegitimate daughter of Louis the Pious. They had three children:

    Leuthard II, who later ruled Paris Eberhard Landrade Susanna Engeltrude --------------------

    -------------------- Count Begue de Paris [Parents] was born about 760 in Paris, Île-de-France, France. He died in 816. He married Aupais Caroling about 777 in Paris, Île-de-France, France.

    [Notes] Aupais Caroling [Parents] was born about 760 in Paris, Île-de-France, France. She married Count Begue de Paris about 777 in Paris, Île-de-France, France.

    [Notes] They had the following children:

    M i Count Leotaud de Paris Caroling F ii Engeltron de Paris Fuente: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~greenefamily/lape/pafg461.htm#77431 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- . Ancestral File

    name:

    Begue of Paris Count

    gender: Male

    birth: ABT 738 Paris,,FRANCE

    death: 816

    AFN: 2W27-SCH

    Parents

    father: Girard of Paris (AFN: 2W30-GXF )

    mother: Rotrou (AFN: 2W30-H11 )

    Marriages (1)

    spouse: Alpais (AFN: 2W27-SJJ )

    children (5)

    child 1:

    Adalhard of Paris Count (AFN: 2W27-S7N )

    gender: Male

    BIRTH ABT 827 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 2:

    Leutaud of Paris Count (AFN: 2W26-511 )

    gender: Male

    BIRTH ABT 768 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 3:

    Engeltrude of Paris (AFN: 2W30-GRD )

    gender: Female

    BIRTH ABT 760 Paris,,FRANCE

    child 4:

    Lisiard Count (AFN: 2W2Z-94H )

    gender: Male

    child 5:

    Laundree of Paris (AFN: 2W34-LP7 )

    gender: Female

    BIRTH ABT 784

    Submitters (1)

    submitter: wdprince2660777

    Source Citation

    "Ancestral File v4.19," database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9MY4-MX3 : accessed 29 August 2012), entry for Begue of Paris Count.

    --------------------

    Reference Sources

    1) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SGVV-GPN : accessed 2013-05-24), entry for Alpaide the Carolingien /D'aquitaine/.

    2) "Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SGVV-LRV : accessed 2013-05-24), entry for Beggon or Begon /De Paris/. -------------------- http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p323.htm#i9700

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    Naaste familie
    Foto versieVoeg familie toe
    18 personen
    Son ofGérard I, count of Paris en Rotrou d'Austrasie
    Husband ofAlpaïs de Paris, Abbesse de St-Pierre de Reims en Withburgis de Paris
    Father ofEberhard I de Paris, comte de Logenahe; Landrée de Paris; Leuthard II, count of Paris; Susanne of Paris de Paris; Engeltrude of Paris en 4 anderen
    Brother ofÉtienne de Paris; Leuthard I, count of Fézensac; Ava / Bava de Morvois; Audran van Friuli en Berenger di Fruili, Count of Paris

    Gerelateerde projecten
    Mega Merge
    Charlemagne, Emperor of the West: Direct Family Line
    Persoonlijk
    Ook bekend als:Engels (standaard): Beggue, Begue, Bego, Begon, Beggo, Beggon, Biego, Picco, Bego I de Flavigny, "Beggo, Bego", aka Comte de Paris
    Beroep:chamberlain of Louis of Aquitaine; Count of Toulouse, Duke of Septimania, Duke of Aquitaine, and Margrave of the Hispanic March, Count of Paris, (Beggo Bego Beggen); chamberlain of Louis of Aquitaine; Count of Toulouse, ABT 0770 - 28 OCT 0816
    Meest voorkomende namen
    de Paris, of Fulda, daughter of Louis I, d'Austrasie en 3 anderen

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