Genealogie Wylie » Sir John Sutton , of Malpas & Shocklach (1361-????)

Persönliche Daten Sir John Sutton , of Malpas & Shocklach 

• Er wurde geboren am 6. Dezember 1361 in Coleshill Manor, Arden, Warwickshire, England.Quellen 1, 2, 3
• Er ist verstorben am 10. März 1395/1396 in Malpas, Whitchurch, Cheshire, England, er war 33 Jahre alt.Quellen 1, 2, 3
• Ein Kind von John Sutton und Katherine Stafford
• Diese Information wurde zuletzt aktualisiert am 24. Februar 2023.

Familie von Sir John Sutton , of Malpas & Shocklach

(1) Er ist verheiratet mit Alice le Despenser.

Sie haben geheiratet in 1st wife.Quelle 2

Kind(er):

1. John Sutton  < -1406 

(2) Er ist verheiratet mit Joan (Jane) FitzAlan.

Sie haben geheiratet nach 1392 in 2nd wife.Quelle 2

Notizen bei Sir John Sutton , of Malpas & Shocklach

NOTE: Neither PA (below) nor MCA, give any wife for John other than Joan(PA suggests she might be daughter of John, Lord of Arundel, while MCAgives no suggestion as to her ancestry). I have followed AR, whichsuggests another wife, as his 1st wife and mother of John.

John de Sutton, of Dudley Castle, co. Stafford, son and heir by firstmarriage, was born at Coleshill in Arden, co. Warwick, on 6 Dec 1361, hismother probably dying in childbirth. His birth occurred at Coleshillprobably because it was the home of his father's nearest cousin, Joan(later his father's second wife), while Dudley Castle was occupied by hisfather's widowed mother and (since November 1359) her second husband,Richard le Fissher, with whom John de Sutton was in frequent litigation.After the death of his father about 1369 his wardship and marriage weregranted to Richard Fitz Alan, Earl of Arundel. During this period he wasmarried to Joan. He served in the King's Fleet under the Earl of Arundelafter he came of age. John de Sutton died on 10 Mar 1395/6. His widowdied in April 1408. (When John died the Barony of Dudley was still inpossession of his grandmother Isabel) (Joan was possibly daughter ofJohn, Lord of Arundel) [Plantagenet Ancestry]

Note: Burke's Dormant & Extinct Peerage states that Richard FitzAlan soldthe marriage rights to Philip le Despenser - see below.

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John de Sutton IV, by (1), of Dudley Castle, co. Stafford, b. 6 Dec 1361,d. 1395/6, IPM 1401; m. Jane, IPM 1409. (Adlard says he m. (1) Alice,probably daughter of guardian Philip le Despenser. She d. 1392. He m.(2) Jane. Perhaps Alice (1st wife) was mother of John V). [AncestralRoots, line 81-34]

Note: According to PA above, John never held Dudley Castle, as it was inthe possession of his grandmother, Isabel de Cherleton, his entire life.

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The following is a post to SGM, 1 Sep 1998, by William Stone, indicatingthe confusion over John's wife and mother of his son:

I know of two places where Alice came from.

1. Weis's Ancestral Roots, 6th Ed., line 81 number 34, says John deSutton IV, (number 2 above) of Dudley Castle, b. 6 Dec. 1361, d. 1395/6,Inq.p.m. 1401; m. Jane, Inq.p.m. 1409. He cites Complete Peerage IV 479note e and DNB 16:107-9. Then in parenthesis - Alard says he m. (1)Alice prob. Dau. of guardian Philip le Despenser. She d. 1392 He m. (2)Jane. Perh. Alice (1 wife) mother of John V. Close parens. Alard islater identified as George Alard: 'The Sutton-Dudleys of England and NewEngland', N.Y.C. 1862, Pedigree 'A" The Suttons.

John de Sutton V (Weis's number 35) (number 1 above) b. 1379, d. 1407,m. Constance Blount, d. 1432, dau. of Sir Walter Blount of Barton.

2. Burke's Extinct Peerage (not an unimpeachable source), on page 521,under 'Sutton - Baron Dudley' muddles things further. He has John deSutton, 2nd Baron (presumably number 4 above). 'The wardship of thisnobleman, he being in minority at his father's decease, was granted toRichard, Earl of Arundel, and sold by him to Sir Philip le Despenser, inthe 5th Richard II, for 350 marks. He m. twice; by his first wife,Margaret, dau. of Roger de Mortimer, Baron Wigmore, he had no issue, butby his 2nd wife, Johanna he had two sons, John and Thomas. The 2nd LordDudley d. 1376 and was s. by his son' John de Sutton, 3rd baron, (number1? above) m. 1st Alice, dau. of Philip le Despenser; and 2ndly Constance,dau. of Sir Walter le Blount . . he died in 1407.

Burke has apparently confused father, son and grandson and mixed up theirwives. Not unusual.

If this Alice existed, might she be a daughter of Sir Philip leDespenser, b. 1313, d. 1349 and a sister of Hawise le Despenser (m. SirAndrew Luttrell) for whom see Wayne Wilcox, 'The Ancestry of CatherineHamby' NEHGR 145 (July 1991) at p. 268. This is only a guess based onchronology - I have no evidence whatsoever.

Now, I realize I have only muddied the waters further, but at least wenow know how Alice got into this line. Anyone want to try to sort thisout? I wish I could say I hope this helps.

Bill Stone

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