Genealogie Wylie » Ellen (Eleanor) Montagu , Heiress of Warblington (± 1360-> ????)

Persönliche Daten Ellen (Eleanor) Montagu , Heiress of Warblington 

• Sie ist geboren rund 1360 in Warblington, Havant, Hampshire, England.
• Sie ist verstorben nach 20. März 1388/1389 in Hartland, Bideford, Devon, England.Quelle 2
• Alternative: Sie ist verstorben nach 22. September 1387.Quelle 1
• Sie wurde begraben in Kingswear Church Cemetery, Devon, England.
• Ein Kind von John 1st Baron de Montagu und Margaret Countess de Monthermer
• Diese Information wurde zuletzt aktualisiert am 5. April 2023.

Familie von Ellen (Eleanor) Montagu , Heiress of Warblington

(1) Sie ist verheiratet mit John de Dinham.

Sie haben geheiratet vor 3. Februar 1379/1380 in 1st wife.Quellen 1, 3

Kind(er):

1. Joan Dinham  ± 1375-1412 
2. Muriel de Dinham  ± 1385-> 1412

Notizen bei Ellen (Eleanor) Montagu , Heiress of Warblington

He [John Dinham] married, 1stly, before 3 February 1379/80, Ellen. Shewas living -22 September 1387. [Complete Peerage IV:374-7, XIV:265,(transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

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The following post to SGM, 27 Mar 2004, by John Ravilious, gives strongcircumstantial evidence that Ellen is Eleanor de Montagu, daughter ofJohn de Montagu by Margaret de Monthermer:

From: Therav3 AT aol.com (Therav3 AT aol.com)
Subject: CP Addition: Eleanor (Elena) de Montagu, wife of Sir John deDinham
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2004-03-27 14:31:46 PST

Saturday, 27 March, 2004

Dear Brom, Rosie, Douglas, Chris, Cris, Leo, Paul, Tim, et al.,

The account in CP for Sir John de Dinham (d. 25 Dec. 1428) statesbriefly concerning his first wife,

" He m., 1stly, before 3 Feb. 1379/80 [g], Ellen. She was living 22Sep. 1387 [a]. " [1]

Two additions have been made to the documentation concerning the tenureof Warblington, co. Hants : (1) the text of the will of 'Sir JohnMontacute, Knight' from Testamenta Vetusta (thanks again, Tim!), and (2)the text from VCH (Hampshire) for the parish of Warblington, in BosmereHundred.

1. The will of Sir John de Montagu was dated 20 March, 1388, in which hedevised (in part) as follows:

' to my sons John and Thomas two gilt pots, marked with the arms of SirJohn de Grandison; to my daughter Alianore a gilt cup of the best sort;to Richard, my son, and to Sibyll, Catherine and Margaret, my daughters,a cup and ewer each; to Alianore, my daughter, the crown which my wifehad in her custody; & c. " [2]

From the above, while no further details are given (including marriednames for his daughters, if any), it is clear that Sir John's daughterEleanor, or Alianore, was alive at the date of this will in March 1388/89.

2. The relevant portion of the VCH text for Warblington is given in thenext message in this thread. The information provided therein makes itquite clear that Warblington, co. Hants. was inherited by Margaret deMonthermer (wife of the above Sir John de Montagu) from her mother in1349, and was held by her until her death in 1394-5. The manor remained(with the exception of a brief forfeiture ca. 1400-01) in the Montagufamily until carried by heiresses to Richard Neville, Earl of Salisburyde jure uxoris, and then through Richard 'the Kingmaker' Neville andGeorge Plantagenet, Duke of Clarence to the unfortunate last Plantagenet,Margaret, Countess of Salisbury [3].

The above (including the VCH details re: Warblington contained in thenext post), taken together with the evidence noted previously on SGMconcerning the Dinham connection to Warblington, co. Hants. [4], providessignificant circumstantial evidence as to the identification ofElena/Ellen, first wife of Sir John de Dinham:

1. Elena/Ellen, wife of Sir John de Dinham, was living at least until 22Sept. 1387. Eleanor/Alianore, daughter of Sir John de Montagu andMargaret de Monthermer, was living as late as the writing of Sir John'swill, 20 March 1388/89.

2. Warblington was a manor documented in VCH as being held in the period1387/89 by Sir John de Montagu (de jure uxoris) and his wife Margaret deMonthermer (suo jure).

3. Warblington was a location visited by Sir John de Dinham and hiswife, and/ or his steward between 1383 and 1389, including on his tripsto London on 'business'.

4. Most importantly, the Account Roll given below (note [4]) makes itclear there was a personal connection to Warblington, with John de Dinhamtraveling to Warblington 'to fetch his wife'. The precise reason why SirJohn's wife was at Warblington is not indicated, but it would appear thatshe had been there for a significant period of time (the distance fromHartland, Devon to Warblington is some 250 km, as the crow flies - theactual route would have been something further). The stopover on thereturn home at Salisbury ('Sarum') may further indicate a family visit.

5. The names Ellen (or Elena) and Eleanor (or Alianore) are not only notexclusive, but are rather known to have been interchangeable (togetherwith 'Helen') during this period [5].

We do not have a definitive statement in hand specifying therelationship, but the above circumstantial evidence is sufficient tostate at least that Ellen/Elena, wife of Sir John de Dinham was mostlikely identical with Eleanor, daughter of Sir John de Montagu and hiswife Margaret de Monthermer.

Your comments, criticism and further documentation (or suggestions forsame) are most welcome.

Cheers,

John *

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