Genealogie Wylie » Juetta de Arches (± 1137-1206)

Persönliche Daten Juetta de Arches 

• Sie ist geboren rund 1137 in Scagglethorpe, Yorkshire, England.
• Sie ist verstorben im Jahr 1206.Quelle 1
• Ein Kind von William de Arches und Ivetta
• Diese Information wurde zuletzt aktualisiert am 5. April 2023.

Familie von Juetta de Arches

(2) Sie ist verheiratet mit Adam II de Brus.

Sie haben geheiratet nach 1169 in 2nd husband 2nd wife.Quelle 2

Kind(er):

1. Peter I de Brus  ± 1170-???? 
2. Isabel le Brus  1172-> 1230 

(3) Sie war verwandt mit Roger de Flamville.

Kind(er):

1. Agnes de Flamville  ± 1153-> 1227 

Notizen bei Juetta de Arches

Ancestral Roots has Juetta de Arches m. Adam I de Brus, but that haschanged.

The following two posts to soc.genealogy.medieval indicate that the"accepted" order of wives for Adam I & II de Brus should actually bereversed:

From: Rosie Bevan ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX))
Subject: Re: Domesday Descendants corrections: Harcourt & Brus
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2002-06-05 18:38:09 PST

Hi Cris

As you have commented, K. Keats-Rohan in Domesday Descendants [p.354,355] has listed Adam I de Brus of Skelton(d.1142) as married to Agnes ofAumale, and Adam II Brus (d.1196) as married to Juetta de Arches. This isin variance with Farrer's observations in vol. 3 of Early YorkshireCharters in which the opposite placement is upheld. The situation is nothelped by CP which claims [VII : 670] that Agnes of Aumale marriedWilliam de Roumare and secondly Piers de Brus.

A study of the chronology tends to support K-R's findings.

-snip-

Juetta de Arches married Roger de Flamville (d.1169) who held the 7Arches knights' fees in her right in 1166. [Charles Clay (ed.) 'EarlyYorkshire Families', p.2]. She had children by de Flamville but the feeseventually descended to Peter de Brus II indicating that her Bruschildren were her eventual heirs, not the Flamville ones. Her children byRoger Flamville were in the custody of Adam II during their minority.Adam II is known to have had two children - Piers and Isabel who marriedHenry de Percy. In 1193 Juetta gave land in Askham to her daughter Isabelde Brus. The charter clearly says "Noveritis me concessisse et presenticarta confirmasse Isabelle de Brus filie mee et heredibus suis totamterram de Ascham..." Farrer uncharacteristically makes the error ofassuming that Isabella was her granddaughter [EYC I ; no. 548, 549].

As Juetta died in 1206, she would have had to have been nearly 90 had shebeen mother of Adam II de Brus (b 1134). A not impossible achievement,but highly unlikely for the time and place.

Cheers

Rosie

----------------------------------------

From: Cristopher Nash ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)-net.com)
Subject: Re: Domesday Descendants corrections: Harcourt & Brus
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2002-06-08 04:13:25 PST

Now I can quickly summarize the argument of Ruth Blakely, 'The Bruses ofSkelton and William of Aumale' in _Yorks Archeol Jnl_ (2001) 73:19-28,which appears to be the clincher leading Keats-Rohan in DD to reverse thetraditional order of two early Brus marriages, giving (1) the wife ofAdam I de Brus as Agnes d'Aumale and (2) the wife of Adam II de Brus asJuetta de Arches. Blaklely's article is devoted specifically to thisdouble question.

On Juetta de Arches: The conventional account, Blakely says, derives fromDugdale in _Baronage of England_, in which he cites as evidence a papalmandate cited in _Mon. Ang._, where in fact Blakely finds that "It is notapparant from this record which of the two Adams is signified. Nor arethey named in any of the other sources which Dugdale cites....His reasonsfor naming Adam I rather than Adam II as Juetta's husband are thereforeobscure. Despite this ambiguity, the identification was accepted byWilliam Farrer and subsequent writers, such as Wormald, Greenway andClay, although some of them, like Dalton, have noted inconsistenciesarising from it" [18-20].

Blakely's argument takes as its starting point an alternative account byWilliam Brown, who -- giving Juetta as wife of Adam II -- in 1895 hadcited records in the chartulary of Healaugh Park Priory. Here 2 grantsappear, made by Adam II's son Peter de Brus I to the canons of the prioryin the Arches fee. In one, Peter refers to his mother as 'Juetta', andin the other specifically as 'Juetta de Arches'. Blakely cites furtherevidence e.g. that Adam II's daughter, Isabella, is granted land from theArches fee ca. 1192 by Juetta who calls her 'my daughter' [22-3]. Blakelythen offers an ample and concerted explanation as to why, nevertheless,William, count of Aumale (eventually Earl of York per K. Stephen), andbro of Agnes d'Aumale, acquired custody of Adam II in the latter'sminority (22-25). (Essentially he, as Adam II's maternal uncle, hadimmediate strong political reasons for seeking some control over thelarge Brus domain.) Blakely's conclusion is that Juetta de Arches, da.and ultimately sole heir of William de Arches and widow of Roger deFlamville and still living 1209, is certainly the wife of Adam II de Brus.

-snip-

An important aspect of Blakely's argument is that this reconstruction ofthe 4 marriages of Juetta and Agnes resolves a number of problems thathave long dogged the Brus genealogy. A useful part of its development isa thoughtful assessment of the historical (inter-familypolitical/economic) background to these events. Rosie, I think when yourinterloan copy gets to you you'll find that the article parallels a goodpart of your smart chronological case, and yours may in fact lend itfurther support.

Hope this quick sketch helps.

Cris

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