Genealogie Wylie » Count Renaud I Comte de Roucy & Reims (± 925-967)

Persönliche Daten Count Renaud I Comte de Roucy & Reims 

• Er wurde geboren rund 0925 in Roucy, Marne, Champagne, France.Quellen 1, 2, 3
• (Alt. Death ) am 15. März 972/0973.Quelle 1
• Er ist verstorben am 10. Mai 967 in Reims, Mrne, Champagne, France.Quellen 4, 5, 6
• Er wurde beerdigt in Abby of St. Remy, Reims, France.
• Ein Kind von Renaud de Roucy Comte de Soissons
• Diese Information wurde zuletzt aktualisiert am 22. Juni 2009.

Familie von Count Renaud I Comte de Roucy & Reims

Er ist verheiratet mit Alberade de Lorraine.

SOUR Royalty for Commoners, Roderick W. Stuart, p. 70, 127 says 944/47;
HAWKINS.GED says ABT 945;al7fl.abts.net/green-page/greenged.html says ABT 945;

_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural

_FREL Natural
_MREL Natural

ABBR Betz homepage
TITL Betz homepage
PUBL Internet http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/~betzja/gene
QUAY 1

REPO @REPO1@
TITL Otto Burgundy.FTW
ABBR Otto Burgundy.FTW
Source Media Type: Other
_MASTER Y
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Mar 16, 1999

_UID 975CE9E0381C4E42A3612E22876C2F5A70B9

REPO @REPO80@
TITL World Family Tree Vol. 4, Ed. 1
AUTH Brøderbund Software, Inc.
PUBL Release date: August 23, 1996
ABBR World Family Tree Vol. 4, Ed. 1
Customer pedigree.
Source Media Type: Family Archive CD
PAGE Tree #0513
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: 14 Apr 1999

REPO @REPO1@
TITL World Family Tree Vol. 2, Ed. 1
AUTH Brøderbund Software, Inc.
PUBL Release date: November 29, 1995
ABBR World Family Tree Vol. 2, Ed. 1
Customer pedigree.
Source Media Type: Family Archive CD
_MASTER Y
PAGE Tree #1414
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Mar 17, 1999
REPO @REPO1@
TITL Mabel De Me.FTW
ABBR Mabel De Me.FTW
Source Media Type: Other
_MASTER Y
PAGE Tree #1414
DATA
TEXT Date of Import: Mar 17, 1999

Sie haben geheiratet rund 0945 in France.Quelle 7

Kind(er):

1. Ermentrude (Irmgard) de Roucy  ± 953-???? 
2. Giselbert Comte de Roucy  ± 951-> 991 
3. Gerberge de Reims  ± 960-???? 

Notizen bei Count Renaud I Comte de Roucy & Reims

From database "The Phillips, Weber, Kirg, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest" on Rootsweb worldConnect submitted by Jim Weber ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)) the following information:

The ancestry of Renaud is questionable. I give below (1) AR, which suggests Herbert II de Vermandois. (2) Peter Stewart, who rejects AR, and finds a claim of "Ragenold the Dane" as father. (3) Christian Settipani (who I am following) who rejects the Dane in favor of an Anjou connection.Alberade of Lorraine, m. Renaud, d. 15 Mar 973, Count of Rheims and Roucy. (He is called the 8th son of Herbert II, Count of Vermandois, but is not so given by Pere Anselme; though Anselme does give Hugh, Archbishop of Rheims, as a son of Herbert II). [Ancestral Roots line 151-19]Note: Alan Wilson names Renaud's father as Rognvald (a Dane) of Burgundy. Leo van de Pas agrees with Alan, giving Ragenold "the Viking" a birth year of c900, which would not agree with Settipani's identification of him nor his ancestry, so I am omitting it.----------------------The following post to SGM, 30 Nov 2000, by Peter Stewart, refutes Herbert de Vermandois as father of Renaud, and, later, suggests a Danish marauder as father:From: Stewart, Peter ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX))Subject: RE: Renaud de Roucy Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medievalDate: 2000-11-30 19:44:31 PST> -----Original Message-----> From: GRHa(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX) [mailto:(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)]> Sent: Friday, 1 December 2000 9:04> To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-(XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)> Subject: Renaud de Roucy> > > In researching Renaud de Roucy b. abt 0931, Roucy(or > Reims), France; d. 15 March 0973 I have encountered two> different parentages as follows:> > Ragnvald "the Viking" of Denmark b. abt 0885; d. abt 0925 > (I know it appears that the son was born 6 years after the death> of the father; but this is from the same source.)> > Herbert II de Vermandois b. abt 0884, Vermandois; d. 23 > February 0943.>> There is also a Hubert of Burgundy which is I would bet > is Herbert II, although his father is Hubert/Herbert also.> > Does anyone have the correct data on this person.> > Of course I hope the correct parentage is Herbert II > since his lineage carries me back to Charlemagne.> This one is not going to fall your preferred way: for the children of Heribert II (Renaud not among them) see Christian Settipani, *La préhistoire des Capétiens 481 - 987* (Villeneuve d'Ascq, 1993), pp 223-230 and Michel Bur, *La formation du comté de Champagne v. 950 - v. 1150*, Mémoires des Annales de l'Est 54 (Nancy, 1977), appendix I, pp 507-513. For the origins of Renaud, count of Roucy see the latter, pp 134-139 & table 13, and the sources cited.According to ES III, 675A (which does not identify his father, & cites Bur along with sources he also used) your Renaud occurs as early as 923, built the château at Roucy in 948, and died on 10 May 967 - where did you find the date 15 March 973? Bur suggests he was son of another Renaud, and either a half-brother of count Waldricus (Gaudry), whose son Guy was count of Soissons from 974 to 995, or related to the counts of Anjou.Perhaps Todd Farmerie will comment on whether there is any evidence that the elder Renaud came from Denmark.Peter Stewart- - - later post on the next day (1 Dec 2000) - - -The claim that the elder Renaud was a Dane depends on identifying him with the Viking raider Ragenold, who according to the annalist Flodoard was invading France at about the same time as Rollo of Normandy. I'm not sure what the most recent opinions are regarding this possible identification.Stewart Baldwin--------------------The following post to SGM, 2 Dec 2000, by Christian Settipani (a noted French genealogist) suggests an earlier Renaud, with an Anjou connection, as father of Renaud:From: Settipani ((XXXXX@XXXX.XXX)-internet.fr)Subject: Re : Renaud de RoucyNewsgroups: soc.genealogy.medievalDate: 2000-12-02 06:58:28 PSTI have examined lenghtly the family of this person in my paper : 'Les comtes d'Anjou et leurs alliances', in Family Trees and the Roots of Politics, ed. K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Woodbridge, 1997, p. 211-267, at p. 222-225. I think that the equivalence Renaud of Roucy / Ragenold the Vikink is a false one and that there is no link between the two. Renaud de Roucy is probably the son of another Renaud, named from 924 to 941 in Anjou, and perhaps count of Soissons. This first Renaud could be a nephew of Fulk I of Anjou (+ 942).CS

From The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest database on Rootsweb worldConnect by Jim Weber:
The ancestry of Renaud is questionable. I give below (1) AR, which suggests Herbert II
Vermandois. (2) Peter Stewart, who rejects AR, and finds a claim of "Ragenold the Dane" as father. (3) Christian Settipani (who I am following) who rejects the Dane in favor of an Anjou connection.Alberade of Lorraine, m. Renaud, d. 15 Mar 973, Count of Rheims and Roucy. (He is called the 8th son of Herbert II, Count of Vermandois, but is not so given by Pere Anselme; though Anselme does give Hugh, Archbishop of Rheims, as a son of Herbert II). [Ancestral Roots line 151-19]Note: Alan Wilson names Renaud's father as Rognvald (a Dane) of Burgundy. Leo van de Pas agrees with Alan, giving Ragenold "the Viking" a birth year of c900, which would not agree with Settipani's identification of him nor his ancestry, so I am omitting it.----------------------The following post to SGM, 30 Nov 2000, by Peter Stewart, refutes Herbert de Vermandois as father of Renaud, and, later, suggests a Danish marauder as father:From: Stewart, Peter (Peter.Stewart AT crsrehab.gov.au)Subject: RE: Renaud de Roucy Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medievalDate: 2000-11-30 19:44:31 PST> -----Original Message-----> From: GRHaleJr AT cs.com [mailto:GRHaleJr AT cs.com]> Sent: Friday, 1 December 2000 9:04> To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L AT rootsweb.com> Subject: Renaud de Roucy> > > In researching Renaud de Roucy b. abt 0931, Roucy(or > Reims), France; d. 15 March 0973 I have encountered two> different parentages as follows:> > Ragnvald "the Viking" of Denmark b. abt 0885; d. abt 0925 > (I know it appears that the son was born 6 years after the death> of the father; but this is from the same source.)> > Herbert II de Vermandois b. abt 0884, Vermandois; d. 23> February 0943.> > There is also a Hubert of Burgundy which is I would bet > is Herbert II, although his father is Hubert/Herbert also.> > Does anyone have the correct data on this person.> > Of course I hope the correct parentage is Herbert II > since his lineage carries me back to Charlemagne.> This one is not going to fall your preferred way: for the children of Heribert II (Renaud not among them) see Christian Settipani, *La préhistoire des Capétiens 481 - 987* (Villeneuve d'Ascq, 1993), pp 223-230 and Michel Bur, *La formation du comté de Champagne v. 950 - v. 1150*, Mémoires des Annales de l'Est 54 (Nancy, 1977), appendix I, pp 507-513. For the origins of Renaud, count of Roucy see the latter, pp 134-139 & table 13, and the sources cited.According to ES III, 675A (which does not identify his father, & cites Bur along with sources he also used) your Renaud occurs as early as 923, built the château at Roucy in 948, and died on 10 May 967 - where did you find the date 15 March 973? Bur suggests he was son of another Renaud, and either a half-brother of count Waldricus (Gaudry), whose son Guy was count of Soissons from 974 to 995, or related to the counts of Anjou.Perhaps Todd Farmerie will comment on whether there is any evidence that the elder Renaud came from Denmark.Peter Stewart- - - later post on the next day (1 Dec 2000) - - -The claim that the elder Renaud was a Dane depends on identifying him with the Viking raider Ragenold, who according to the annalist Flodoard was invading France at about the same time as Rollo of Normandy. I'm not sure what the most recent opinions are regarding this possible identification.Stewart Baldwin--------------------The following post to SGM, 2 Dec 2000, by Christian Settipani (a noted French genealogist) suggests an earlier Renaud, with an Anjou connection, as father of Renaud:From: Settipani (inapit AT club-internet.fr)Subject: Re : Renaud de RoucyNewsgroups: soc.genealogy.medievalDate: 2000-12-02 06:58:28 PSTI have examined lenghtly the family of this person in my paper : 'Les comtes d'Anjou et leurs alliances', in Family Trees and the Roots of Politics, ed. K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Woodbridge, 1997, p. 211-267, at p. 222-225. I think that the equivalence Renaud of Roucy / Ragenold the Vikink is a false one and that there is no link between the two. Renaud de Roucy is probably the son of another Renaud, named from 924 to 941 in Anjou, and perhaps count of Soissons. This first Renaud could be a nephew of Fulk I of Anjou (+ 942).CS

From The Phillips, Weber, Kirk, & Staggs families of the Pacific Northwest database on Rootsweb worldConnect by Jim Weber:
The ancestry of Renaud is questionable. I give below (1) AR, which suggests Herbert II
Vermandois. (2) Peter Stewart, who rejects AR, and finds a claim of "Ragenold the Dane" as father. (3) Christian Settipani (who I am following) who rejects the Dane in favor of an Anjou connection.Alberade of Lorraine, m. Renaud, d. 15 Mar 973, Count of Rheims and Roucy. (He is called the 8th son of Herbert II, Count of Vermandois, but is not so given by Pere Anselme; though Anselme does give Hugh, Archbishop of Rheims, as a son of Herbert II). [Ancestral Roots line 151-19]Note: Alan Wilson names Renaud's father as Rognvald (a Dane) of Burgundy. Leo van de Pas agrees with Alan, giving Ragenold "the Viking" a birth year of c900, which would not agree with Settipani's identification of him nor his ancestry, so I am omitting it.----------------------The following post to SGM, 30 Nov 2000, by Peter Stewart, refutes Herbert de Vermandois as father of Renaud, and, later, suggests a Danish marauder as father:From: Stewart, Peter (Peter.Stewart AT crsrehab.gov.au)Subject: RE: Renaud de Roucy Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medievalDate: 2000-11-30 19:44:31 PST> -----Original Message-----> From: GRHaleJr AT cs.com [mailto:GRHaleJr AT cs.com]> Sent: Friday, 1 December 2000 9:04> To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L AT rootsweb.com> Subject: Renaud de Roucy> > > In researching Renaud de Roucy b. abt 0931, Roucy(or > Reims), France; d. 15 March 0973 I have encountered two> different parentages as follows:> > Ragnvald "the Viking" of Denmark b. abt 0885; d. abt 0925 > (I know it appears that the son was born 6 years after the death> of the father; but this is from the same source.)> > Herbert II de Vermandois b. abt 0884, Vermandois; d. 23> February 0943.> > There is also a Hubert of Burgundy which is I would bet > is Herbert II, although his father is Hubert/Herbert also.> > Does anyone have the correct data on this person.> > Of course I hope the correct parentage is Herbert II > since his lineage carries me back to Charlemagne.> This one is not going to fall your preferred way: for the children of Heribert II (Renaud not among them) see Christian Settipani, *La préhistoire des Capétiens 481 - 987* (Villeneuve d'Ascq, 1993), pp 223-230 and Michel Bur, *La formation du comté de Champagne v. 950 - v. 1150*, Mémoires des Annales de l'Est 54 (Nancy, 1977), appendix I, pp 507-513. For the origins of Renaud, count of Roucy see the latter, pp 134-139 & table 13, and the sources cited.According to ES III, 675A (which does not identify his father, & cites Bur along with sources he also used) your Renaud occurs as early as 923, built the château at Roucy in 948, and died on 10 May 967 - where did you find the date 15 March 973? Bur suggests he was son of another Renaud, and either a half-brother of count Waldricus (Gaudry), whose son Guy was count of Soissons from 974 to 995, or related to the counts of Anjou.Perhaps Todd Farmerie will comment on whether there is any evidence that the elder Renaud came from Denmark.Peter Stewart- - - later post on the next day (1 Dec 2000) - - -The claim that the elder Renaud was a Dane depends on identifying him with the Viking raider Ragenold, who according to the annalist Flodoard was invading France at about the same time as Rollo of Normandy. I'm not sure what the most recent opinions are regarding this possible identification.Stewart Baldwin--------------------The following post to SGM, 2 Dec 2000, by Christian Settipani (a noted French genealogist) suggests an earlier Renaud, with an Anjou connection, as father of Renaud:From: Settipani (inapit AT club-internet.fr)Subject: Re : Renaud de RoucyNewsgroups: soc.genealogy.medievalDate: 2000-12-02 06:58:28 PSTI have examined lenghtly the family of this person in my paper : 'Les comtes d'Anjou et leurs alliances', in Family Trees and the Roots of Politics, ed. K.S.B. Keats-Rohan, Woodbridge, 1997, p. 211-267, at p. 222-225. I think that the equivalence Renaud of Roucy / Ragenold the Vikink is a false one and that there is no link between the two. Renaud de Roucy is probably the son of another Renaud, named from 924 to 941 in Anjou, and perhaps count of Soissons. This first Renaud could be a nephew of Fulk I of Anjou (+ 942).CS

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