Family Tree Welborn » Adam ap Cynhaethwy (± 1255-1307)

Persönliche Daten Adam ap Cynhaethwy 

• Er wurde geboren rund 1255 in Hertfordshire, England.
• Er ist verstorben im Jahr 1307 in Wernddu, Monmouthshire, Wales.
• Ein Kind von Cynhaethwy ap Herbert und FNU verch Rhys Goch
• Diese Information wurde zuletzt aktualisiert am 4. Oktober 2018.

Familie von Adam ap Cynhaethwy

Er ist verheiratet mit Cristin verch Gwarin Ddu.

Sie haben geheiratet.

Kind(er):

1. Jenkin ab Adam  ± 1290-1344 

Notizen bei Adam ap Cynhaethwy

Adam ap Cynhaethwy is your 21st great grandfather.
You ¬â€  ·Üí Geneva Allene Welborn
your mother ·Üí Henry Loyd Smith, Sr.
her father ·Üí Edith Lucinda Smith
his mother ·Üí William M LEE, Will
her father ·Üí Britton Lee
his father ·Üí William Samuel Lee
his father ·Üí Lemuel Samuel Lee
his father ·Üí Edward Lee, Sr.
his father ·Üí Mary Bryan
his mother ·Üí William Bryan, I
her father ·Üí John Smith Bryan
his father ·Üí Catherine Bryan (Morgan)
his mother ·Üí Catherine Morgan
her mother ·Üí Nicholas Herbert
her father ·Üí Mathew Herbert
his father ·Üí Sir George Herbert, Kt., MP
his father ·Üí Sir Richard Herbert of Ewyas
his father ·Üí William Herbert, 1st Earl of Pembroke
his father ·Üí Sir William ap Thomas, The Blue Knight of Gwent
his father ·Üí Sir Thomas ap Gwilym, Kt.
his father ·Üí Gwilym ap Jenkin, Master Sergeant of Abergavenny
his father ·Üí Jenkin ap Adam, Lord of Wern Ddu
his father ·Üí Adam ap Cynhaethwy his father

https://www.geni.com/people/Adam-ap-Cynhaethwy/6000000000796810451

Adam ap Cynhaethwy
Gender:
Male
Birth:
circa 1255¬â€ 
Hertfordshire, England¬â€ 
Death:
1307¬â€ (48-56)¬â€ 
Wernddu, Monmouthshire, Wales¬â€ 
Immediate Family:
Son of¬â€ Cynhaethwy ap Herbert; ?¬â€ 
Cynhaethwy ab Adam Gwent ?¬â€ 
and¬â€ N.N.¬â€ 

Husband of¬â€ Cristin verch Gwarin Ddu¬â€ 

Father of¬â€ Jenkin ab Adam, Lord of Wern Dduand¬â€ Sir Thomas ab Adam, Lord of Llanllowel¬â€ 

Half brother of¬â€ Madog ap Cynhaethwy;¬â€ Llian verch Cynhaethwy;¬â€ Gruffudd ap Cynhaethwy;¬â€ Anarawd ap Cynhaethwy¬â€ and¬â€ Henry ap Cynhaethwy¬â€ 

See Darrell Wollcott, for the untangling of these lines:
http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id40.html (January 13, 2016; Anne Brannen, curator)

http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id40.html

The lineage of Adam Ap Cynhaethwy acoording to a post on Geni Discussions shows his father as Cynhaethwy Ap Herbert, but according to the website www.ancientwalesstudies.org which this site used as a source his father was Cynhaethwy son of Adam Gwent. Below is a copy of their findings and sources:

Our journey began with two pedigrees which said the father of Adam was actually named Cynhaethwy[15] and a third pedigree which said Peter fitz Herbert had a brother named Cynhaethwy, and that man had a son named Adam[16]. Down to this point in the pedigree, all men bore common English names and married English/Norman ladies but suddenly we encounter a purely Welsh name. Further research led us to the family of Adam Gwent.[17] Among his sons were Adam Fychan and Cynhaethwy; while his pedigree did not chart the descendants of Cynhaethwy, it does identify a son of Adam Fychan who is styled "Lord of Beachley".

Return now to a lady mentioned earlier: Alis ferch Bleddyn Broadspear. Most of the citations which mention Bleddyn identify him as Lord of Llanllowel and Beachley.[18] The fake Herbert pedigrees show Llanllowell descending to Sir Thomas ap Adam, older brother of Jenkin ap Adam. They omit any mention of Beachley, a fact "corrected" by Joseph Morris in 1858.[19] He simply takes Sir John ap Adam Fychan (the man who did inheirit Beachley) and makes him the brother of Jenkin ap Adam and assigns Llanllowel to him.

Acting on the theory that both the families we find holding those two manors c. 1300 had a common ancestor, and that ancestor was a son of Alis ferch Bleddyn, we decided to see where it might lead us if we were to identify the Cynhaethwy claimed to be a brother of Peter fitz Herbert (and father of Adam) with the man of that name cited as a son of Adam Gwent. Our result was this chart[20]:

965 Rhiwallon
l
1000 Caradog[21]
l
1030 Breichiol
l
1060 Pyll
l
1095 Meurig
l
1125 Caradog of Penrhos Bleddyn Broadspear
l l
1160 Iorwerth=================Alis
l
1190 Adam Gwent
___________________l_____________
l l
1220 Adam Fychan Cynhaethwy 1225
l l
1255 Sir John[22] Adam 1255
____________l________
Lord of Beachley l l
and Beverstone[23] Sir Thomas 1285 1290 Jenkin

Lord of Llanllowel Lord of Wern Ddu
[24]

Iorwerth ap Caradog in this chart was steward to Hywel ap Iorwerth ap Owain Wan of Caerleon, ruler of Lower Gwent c. 1175. Adam Gwent was steward to Morgan ap Hywel c. 1210[25] Our construction is chronologically stable now that we have disconnected Jenkin ap Adam from the Norman fitz-Herbert family and placed Alis ferch Bleddyn in a marriage that produced the descendants that actually inherited her lands. Bleddyn's ancestry is nowhere given, but it is a common Welsh name and the form "Alis ferch Bleddyn" used in the pedigrees should identify him as a Welshman. Our guess is he was related to the ruling family in Caerleon, in whose realm Llanllowel is located[26] and in whose service we find Iorwerth ap Caradog the father of Adam Gwent.

We can only guess as to why the 15th century Earl of Pembroke did not want his ancestor listed as Adam Gwent, a nobleman of purely Welsh ancestry. We even suspect Adam's ancestors represent a junior cadet of one of the families who ruled Gwent in the tenth and eleventh centuries[27]. But Sir William Herbert, as he styled himself, was an ardent Yorkist and must have preferred to claim ancestry from an illustrous Norman family, not a "lowly" Welshman.

His genealogists thus did a cut and paste job to accomplish his desire, ignoring chronology as they went. But their principal error was in bringing Alis ferch Bleddyn into the pedigree to account for a Thomas ap Adam holding her manor of Llanllowel while failing to include the family holding Beachley. While our construction cannot be guaranteed correct, it follows a stable timeline and places both of Alis' manors in the hands of Adam Gwent whose descendants are known to have inherited them.

Notes:
[1] Llyfr Baglan, pp 13
[2] LB 51
[3] LB 51, 79
[4] John B. Burke "Roll of the Battle Abbey", 1848 (1998 reprint, pp 55) where the companion of William I is called Herbert, Count of Vermandois.
[5] Dwnn i, 293
[6] Cited as a landholder in Hampshire; since his entry immediately follows land held by a "Herbert the Chamberlain", some would say they were father and son. That this conjecture is untrue can be seen from the dates; if both held land in capite from King William I in 1086, both must date from before 1066 and if related at all, they are from the same generation. But nothing compels belief they were related.
[7] John of Hexham, Historical Works (ed by Thomas Arnold), 1882-85, vol ii, pp 305-307
[8] LB 79, 215, 269; Dwnn i, 196
[9] LB 79; Dwnn i, 196, 292, 293
[10] LB 79, 215, 269, 323; Dwnn i, 196, 292, 293
[11] Archaeologia Cambrensis, 1858, pp 21
[12] Born c. 1085, Nest spent her childhood as a hostage at the court of William Rufus and Henry I before marrying Gerald of Windsor. She is known to have had out-of-wedlock children with several important men at court, including King Henry I. In 1109, she was abducted from her husband's bed by Owain ap Cadwgan of Powys "who was moved by passion and love for the woman". Her only complaint to Owain was "if you want me for yourself, at least send my husband's children back to him".
[13] Dwnn i, 196 may contain the identification of Peter's actual wife, Alice daughter of John St. John, although it matches her with the earlier Peter. Burke's Dormant and Extinct Peerages says Peter had a sister named Alice who married John St John, Lord of Basing born c. 1235. If that man had a base daughter born c. 1255 before his marriage, she would fit chronologically with Peter.
[14] Limbus Patrum Morganiae et Glamorganiae, pp 250-251
[15] Dwnn ii, 42, 43
[16] LB 323
[17] Joseph Bradney "A History of Monmouthshire", vol 3, part 2, pp 218
[18] LB 215, 269, 323; Dwnn i, 293
[19] Archaeologia Cambrensis, 1858, pp 30
[20] see note 17
[21] Caradog ap Rhiwallon appears in several Llandaff Charters; in a charter which scholars date to c. 1045, he described himself as "decomitibus" or "comes" to King Meurig (ap Hywel ap Owain ap Morgan Hen). Text of the Book of Llan Dav, pp 261
[22] Sir John ab Adam was a baronet called to Parliament and to military service many times between 1297 and 1307.
[23] Sir John had Beverstone from his mother and Beachley from his father.
[24] Jenkin was the younger son of Adam and received his mother's manor. She was a daughter of Gwarin Ddu, whose pedigree can be found in LB 257 and Bradney's History of Monmouthshire, vol 1, part 2b, pp 360
[25] See note 17
[26] Llanllowell was located in the parish of Llantrisant Fawr in the hundred of Usk, just north of Caerleon.
[27] Rhiwallon, the father of Caradog, could well have been a younger brother of King Meurig ap Hywel. Not only does the chronology fit, but the nephew of a king could be expected to hold a key role at his court...perhaps even his penteulu

APPENDIX:

The tradition that Nest ferch Rhys ap Tewdwr was the mother of one of the early Norman Herberts (but not married to the father) is widely believed. The Dictionary of Welsh Biography, 1959, page 683 cites a number of illegitimate sons she bore by liasons with not only King Henry I, but by other highly-placed Norman men. That one of these was the Herbert ancestor who was married to Emma de Blois is suggested by the fact that none of the Herbert pedigrees found in Llyfr Baglan or in Dwnn's Visitations of Wales cite Emma de Blois as mother to any of the early Herberts, but several do say Nest ferch Rhys ap Tewdwr was. One can never be sure whether the "marriage matches" shown in medieval pedigrees were meant to indicate (a) that the lady was married to the man to whose name she is connected, or (b) that she was the mother of the next following person in the pedigree, whether or not married to the father.

Our best guess is that Emma was excluded from the pedigrees because she was not the mother of any cited son; not all the offspring of each generation was included. According to the 12th century chronicler John of Hexham, Emma and Herbert of Winchester were the parents of William, archbishop of York. On the other hand, Nest ferch Rhys ap Tewdwr may have been named because she was the mother of a Herbert, not because she was actually married to his father.

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