Genealogy Richard Remmé, The Hague, Netherlands » Sir Robert Mortimer of Mortimer's Hall, Essex (± 1442-1485)

Persoonlijke gegevens Sir Robert Mortimer of Mortimer's Hall, Essex 

• Hij is geboren rond 1442 in Landymer Hall, Thorpe le Soken, Tendring, Essex, England.Bron 4
• Hij is overleden op 22 augustus 1485 in Battle of Bosworth Field, Leicestershire, England (dvp).Bron 3
• Een kind van David Mortimer en Elizabeth Doreward
• Deze gegevens zijn voor het laatst bijgewerkt op 4 december 2022.

Gezin van Sir Robert Mortimer of Mortimer's Hall, Essex

Hij is getrouwd met Isabel Howard.

Zij zijn getrouwd

Kind(eren):

1. Elizabeth Mortimer  ± 1475-???? 

Notities over Sir Robert Mortimer of Mortimer's Hall, Essex

of Thorpe le Soken, Sir

Esq., of Landymere Hall (in Thorpe- le-Soken)and Great Bromley, Essex

Robert Mortimer is listed along with his father-in-law John Howard as among the fallen at the Battle of Bosworth Field 22 Aug 1485.  His place of residence is listed as Thorpe le Soken near Tendring, Essex, England.

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The following post to SGM, 10 Dec 2003, by Brad Verity proves who Robert's father and mother are.  I am still maintaining the ancestry for this branch of the Mortimer family suggested in Brad's post of 14 Oct 2003 (included in my notes immediately after this post) by making David a brother of Hugh of Mortimer's Hall (at least until more is known).

From: "brad verity" (batruth AT hotmail.com)
Subject: Robert Mortimer m. Isabel Howard
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2003-12-10 22:30:19 PST

batruth AT hotmail.com (Brad Verity) wrote in message news on Oct. 14, 2003:
>
>Could Sir Robert Mortimer of Essex been a son of Sir Hugh Mortimer "of
>Mortimer's Hall" (d. 1460) - the elder son and heir?

Turns out he wasn't - see below.

>It would explain the "Mortimer's Hall" reference in both otherwise
>unrelated Mortimer branches.  Though we still don't know which county
>it was in.

"Mortimer's Hall" was apparently a mistake for "Divers lands and tenements in Harwiche and Dovercourte [Essex] called 'Mortimers', worth 5l., held of the said Earl [of Oxford]."  See below.

Jim Weber replied on 15-Oct-2003:

"On another tack, I had contacted The Richard III Foundation, which maintains a Battle of Bosworth Field website, showing that Sir Robert Mortimer of Thorpe le Soken was slain at the battle."

The Foundation was quite correct.  Robert Mortimer (he was not a knight), according to his IPM, died "22 Aug., 1 Hen. VII".  See below.

"Jo Ann Ricca also stated that, looking on the internet, she found his father to be named David.  I have seen this on the internet too, but I have found no source given for where the name "David" came from, so FWIW."

His father was indeed David Mortimer - see below.

"I have tried several variations of the name Mortimer on PRO and A2A and have not come up with anything related to Thorpe le Soken.  Thorpe le Soken may not have been a large holding, and Robert may well have been "of Mortimer's Hall" (possibly in Hampshire; or in Stratfield Mortimer, Berkshire, just across the border from Hampshire?)."

No Mortimer's Hall for Robert - someone got confused and the mistake has been picked up in several sources.  Thorpe le Soken's association with these Mortimers is described in 1486: "Manor of Landymer Hall in the parish of Thorp within the soke of St. Paul's, London, worth 10l., held of the Dean of St. Paul's, as of his said soke, by fealty and suit of court."  See below.

Not sure what a 'soke' is.

And now the mystery of 'Who was Robert Mortimer, husband of Isabel Howard?' is solved, thanks to the beauty of IPMs.  He was the son and heir of David Mortimer, esquire, and of Isabel (aka Elizabeth), daughter of Elizias Doreward (aka Durward), of Martel Hall and Great Bramley, Essex.

Here are the IPMs of Robert Mortimer and his father David Mortimer, as printed in the CIPMs for Henry VII (Volume 1):

"100.  ROBERT MORTYMER.
Com. 17 July, 1 Hen. VII; inq. 31 Oct., 2 Hen. VII.
One Isabel Durward was seised in fee of the under-mentioned manors of Martel Hall, and Great Brumley, and of 200a. land in Dovercorte, and intermarried with David Mortymer, esq., and had issue by him the said Robert.  David Mortymer survives, and is seised of the said manors and lands, as tenant by the curtesy, with reversion to the said Robert and his heirs.
.
The said Robert died 22 Aug., 1 Hen. VII [1485 - killed at Bosworth with his father-in-law John Howard, Duke of Norfolk], seised of the under-mentioned manor of Landymer Hall, and lands called 'Badons', 'Folton Hall,' and 'Panteryse' in fee.  Elyzabeth Mortymer, aged 10 and more, is his daughter and heir.
.
ESSEX.  The reversion of the manor of Martel Hall in Ardele, within the hundred of Tendryng, worth 24l., held of the King, as of the duchy of Lancaster, by 1/8 of a knight's fee.

The reversion of a moiety of the manor of Great Brumley, worth 20l., held of the Earl of Oxford, as of Hedingham Castle, by fealty and suit of court.

The reversion of 200a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture in Dovercorte, worth 5l., held of the Earl of Notingham [William Berkeley, co-heir to the Mowbray inheritance along with John Howard, Duke of Norfolk], as of the manor of Dovercorte.

A messuage, 300a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture, and 3s. rent in Tendryng and Manytre, called 'Badons', worth 8 marks, held of the King in chief, by service of 1/2 of a knight's fee.

Manor of Landymer Hall in the parish of Thorp within the soke of St. Paul's, London, worth 10l., held of the Dean of St. Paul's, as of his said soke, by fealty and suit of court.

A messuage, and 200a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture in the parish of Ramsey, called 'Folton Hall,' worth 100s., tenure unknown.

A messuage, and 100a. land, wood, meadow, and pasture in the parish of Dovercorte, called 'Panteryse,' worth 4 marks, held of the said Earl of Notingham, as of his said manor, by fealty and suit of court.
C. Series II. Vol. 1 (104.)"

Since the manor of Landymer Hall (in the Thorpe le Soken parish), plus the lands called 'Badons', 'Folton Hall' and 'Panteryse' were held by Robert Mortimer himself, and Robert died before his father, these lands must have been given to him by his parents, and/or his father-in-law John Howard, probably at his marriage to Isabel, eldest daughter of Howard.

This IPM tells us Robert's mother 'Isabel Durward' died before 1486. Also, that Elizabeth Mortimer was the only surviving child of Robert Mortimer and Isabel Howard, and was born around 1476.  Since none of these Hen. VII CIPM abstracts mention dower, we cannot be certain that Isabel Howard died before her husband Robert - perhaps the Close, Fine or Patent Rolls of the 1480s can shed further light.

"1006.  DAVID MORTYMER.
Writ 7 April, 9 Hen. VII; inq. 16 Oct., 10 Hen. VII.
At the time of his death he held by the curtesy of England the under-mentioned manor of Martels, a moiety of the manor of Bramley, the advowson of the church of Bramley, and lands in Harwiche and Dovercourte, in right of Elizabeth his wife, daughter and heir of Elizias Doreward.
.
He was seised of the other moiety of Great Bramley manor called 'Morleys' in fee, and being so seised enfeoffed John Squiore, clk., thereof in fee to the use of himself, David, and his heirs; and being so seised the said John enfeoffed William Pykenam, clk., John Reifford, or Reisford, and Henry Teye, esqs., and William Breton and William Teye, 'gentilmen,' thereof to the same use.
.
He died 30 March last [1494].  Elizabeth Gylford, aged 18 and more, wife of George Gylford, and daughter of Robert Mortymere, esq., is his cousin and heir.
.
ESSEX.  Manor of Martels in Ardelegh, worth 20 marks, held of the King, as of the duchy of Lancaster, service unknown.
A moiety of the manor of Great Bramley, with the advowson of the church of Bramley, worth 20 marks, held of John, Earl of Oxford, service unknown.
Divers lands and tenements in Harwiche and Dovercourte called 'Mortemers,' worth 5l., held of the said Earl, service unknown.
A moiety of the manor of Great Bramley, called 'Morleys,' worth 20 marks, held of the said Earl, service unknown.
C. Series II. Vol. 10 942.)   E. Series II. File 292. (4.)"

The HOP bio of Sir John Guildford, the only son of Elizabeth Mortimer and her husband George Guildford of Hemsted, Kent, has him "born by 1508". The above IPM tells us that his parents Elizabeth and George were married by Oct. 1494, and that Elizabeth was born around 1476, which matches her age in her father's IPM eight years previous.

As to who were the parents of David Mortimer, esquire (d. 1494), we still don't know.  But I'm guessing that his granddaughter Elizabeth's marriage to George Guildford (which David must've had a hand in arranging), the younger brother of Sir Edward Guildford, who was married "by 1496" [HOP - bio of Sir Edward Guildford] to Eleanor West, granddaughter of Sir Hugh Mortimer of Mortimer's Hall, Hampshire, still suggests a connection to that family.

David Mortimer marrying an heiress in Essex and having no lands of his own strongly suggests he was a younger son.  Perhaps he was a younger son of a Mortimer from Mortimer's Hall in Hampshire - is Hampshire near Essex?

At any rate, it's great to have some of the blanks filled in.

Cheers,                                        ------Brad

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The following post to SGM, 14 Oct 2003, by Brad Verity, reviews much of the evidence and proposes an ancestry based on choronology, other connections between the Mortimer family and the Guildford family, and the common references to Hugh Mortimer (the father) as "of Mortimer's Hall, Hants" and to Robert Mortimer as "of Mortimer's Hall, Essex" (Thus far there appears to be only one Mortimer's Hall, which was in Stratfield Mortimer, Berks on the Hants border):

From: Brad Verity (batruth AT hotmail.com)
Subject: Robert Mortimer m. Isabel Howard
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: 2003-10-14 22:18:12 PST

Jim Weber wrote on 11-21-2002:
"I have not been able to determine the ancestry of Robert Mortimer, knight who married Isabel, daughter of  John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk.  Gary Boyd Roberts' Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants, p. 246, is the only source that I have on the marriage and their daughter Elizabeth Mortimer who m. George Guilford, but no dates and or place names are provided."

Anne Crawford, in her 1992 biography of John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk, in the Introduction to the Howard Household Books says this:

"Of Howard's four older girls, the eldest, Isabel, married Robert Mortimer, whose lands lay in Essex and who appears in the second set of memoranda on a number of occasions.  Jane, the youngest, married John Timperley, whose father of the same name was, like Howard, a member of the Duke of Norfolk's council.  Both Mortimer and Timperley formed part of their father-in-law's train when it was necessary, but neither were members of the household ... These marriages were all respectable rather than ambitious, most of them arranged in the early 1460s, before Howard's real rise to wealth and power."

Unfortunately, Crawford makes no mention of Robert Mortimer's parents or of the manors in Essex that he held.  Since Isabel was living at home with her father in 1461, we can assume her marriage took place after that.

From the 1982 HOP bio of Sir John Guildford, born "by 1508, only son of George Guildford of Hemsted [in Kent] by Elizabeth, da. of Sir Robert Mortimer of Mortimer's Hall, Essex."  Of George Guildford, son-in-law of Sir Robert Mortimer and Isabel Howard, he "appears not to have shared [his brothers'] political proclivities and by the son's time the family had passed its heyday."

George Guildford was the middle son of Sir Richard Guildford, of Cranbrook and Rolveden, Comptroller to Henry VII, being the younger son by his first wife Anne, daughter and heiress of John Pimpe of Kent.  His elder full brother Sir Edward Guildford was born by 1479, and his younger half-brother Sir Henry Guildford was born in 1489, so George was born probably in the early 1480s.  George's father Sir Richard died on 6 Sept. 1506.  George himself must've died before 1534, when his brother Sir Edward died and George's son John as heir male of Sir Richard claimed the family lands over Sir Edward's daughter Jane, the heir general.

No mention is made in HOP [History of Parliament] of Sir John Guildford (d. 5 July 1565), grandson of Sir Robert Mortimer, or of Sir John's son and heir Thomas Guildford (d. June 1575), holding any lands in Essex. This casts some doubt on whether Sir John's mother Elizabeth was actually the heiress of her parents Sir Robert Mortimer and Isabel Howard.  But it may also be that the Guildford lands in Kent, where Elizabeth's son and grandson were seated, and where they were returned as MPs, were far more important than any Essex lands inherited from her.  The 4 May 1560 will (PCC 25 Morrison) of Sir John and the 1 Nov. 1574 will (PCC 32 Pyckering) of his son and heir Thomas could shed light on any Essex lands inherited from Elizabeth Mortimer.

As for HOP's claim that Sir Robert Mortimer was seated at Mortimer's Hall in Essex ...

Chris Phillips wrote on 11-21-2002:
"I never had any luck in locating this supposed Mortimer's Hall in Hampshire. Hugh Mortimer's family had held Tedstone Wafer in Herefordshire since the beginning of the 15th century, and also held land in Worcestershire. I don't think they had any connection with East Anglia."

There just may be a connection between Sir Robert Mortimer of Essex, husband of Isabel Howard, and the siblings Sir John Mortimer, husband of Margaret Nevill, daughter of the Marquess of Montagu, and Elizabeth Mortimer, wife of Thomas West, 8th Lord De La Warr.

Mike Davidson wrote way back on 11-28-1999 in the thread 'Guildford and West, Lords la Warr':
"On page 157 of Volume IV., in the De La Warr article, a table shows the following children of Thomas West, 8th Lord la Warr, d. 11 October 1525, and his 1st wife Elizabeth Mortimer, sister of Sir John Mortimer, daughter of Hugh Mortimer of Mortimer's Hall and Eleanor Cornwall, daughter of John Cornwall."

Chris Phillips wrote on 6-23-2002 in the thread 'CP Query: Mortimer of "Mortimer's Hall", Hampshire':
"I've also found a thread discussing them on the "Later Medieval Britain Mailing List". Mark Burgess quoted a detailed biography of Sir John Mortimer (c.1450-1504) which like CP places "Mortimer Hall" in Hampshire. It says his father died c.1455, and was the son of another Hugh Mortimer who was killed at Agincourt. It says Sir John "Married Margaret third dau. and coh. of John Nevill, marquess Montagu (slain 1471), and widow of Thomas Horne. She married (3) Charles Brandon, duke of Suffolk, who divorced her." It concludes " D. shortly before 1 Nov. 1504, when his writ diem clausit was sent to the eschrs. of Worcs., Heref. and Salop. According to further information in that discussion, posted by Pam Benstead, Sir John's father died in May 1460 [so he would be the Hugh Mortymer, knight, whose inquisitions post mortem were taken 38,39 Henry VI (c.1460), for Worcestershire, Herefordshire and the marches of Wales], and these Mortimers descended from Roger Mortimer of Tedstone Wafer in Herefordshire, who died 1402."

Elizabeth Mortimer, daughter of Sir Hugh Mortimer "of Mortimer's Hall", Hampshire, was the mother of Eleanor West, the first wife of Sir Edward Guildford, elder brother of George Guildford, who was the husband of Elizabeth Mortimer, daughter of Sir Robert Mortimer "of Mortimer's Hall", Essex.  So one brother married a granddaughter of Mortimer's Hall and the other brother married a daughter of Mortimer's Hall.  Further, George Guildford married his son John and daughter Mary to the half-sister Barbara West and half-brother Owen West of Eleanor, his brother Sir Edward Guildford's wife.

Could Sir Robert Mortimer of Essex been a son of Sir Hugh Mortimer "of Mortimer's Hall" (d. 1460) - the elder son and heir?  Sir Robert's wife Isabel Howard was born in the mid/late 1440s (she was John Howard's eldest daughter, born after his first child, son Thomas, in 1443)  The younger son being Sir John Mortimer(c. 1455-1504), who married a widow and wealthy co-heiress. And both being brothers to Elizabeth Mortimer, wife of Thomas West, Lord De La Warr (an East Anglian magnate).  Making the Guildford brothers married to first cousins?

It would explain the "Mortimer's Hall" reference in both otherwise unrelated Mortimer branches.  Though we still don't know which county it was in.

Cheers, Brad

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Following is an e-mail which I received from the Richard III Foundation (which explains the reference to "Yorkists") in response to a query I made about their listing of Robert Mortimer falling at the Battle of Bosworth:

Jim

We will have an informational package out to you.   Us Yorkists are not such a bad sort.

So far, here is what we found about Robert Mortimer.

Robert Mortimer was born about 1446 in Thorpe le Soken, Essex, the son of David Mortimer.  His mother's name is unknown.

He married Isabell Howard, daughter of John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk, and his 1st wife Catherine Moleyns.  Isabell was probably born about 1448 at the Howard estate of Tendring, Essex.

According to the Howard Household Books, Robert's property was already in Essex, so he probably did not receive it through his marriage.  Thorpe le Soken is about 25 miles from Tendring, so the Mortimers and the Howards were probably considered neighbors. Robert was part of his father-in-law's train, but was not part of his immediate household.

Robert was killed at Bosworth, along with his father-in-law.  It is not known when Isabell died.  They had a daughter, Elizabeth, who was probably born about 1482 in Tendring.  She married George Guilford (born about 1480 in Hempstead Place, Kent).  They had at least one son, John, born about 1510.

Sources: www.ancestry.com
          ;   www.genealogy.com
          ;   Howard Household Books

We will keep on looking

Joe Ann

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